4 miles worth of side walk to clean

[WCP]

Hey, sorry in advance if this is the wrong forum. I have been cleaning roofs in a particular neighbor hood. I have done 3 roofs in the past couple of weeks (mainly neighbors of each other). I have made friends with one of the HOA board members and now he wants me to do the yearly sidewalk and gutter cleaning. There are 4 miles worth of 5 foot wide sidewalk to clean and probably 8 miles of gutter (the part that borders the street). I am looking for a fair price to charge per Sq foot. Any info would be helpful. 

    Apparently the guy they hired last year charged $5700.00 and did a horrible job. I did the math and at that price just considering the sidewalk alone he only made $0.05 cents per Sq foot. Once you factor in the sidewalk he probably made half of that or $0.02 - $0.03 cents per square foot. 

 

Again I am looking for help on how to price this. I did a test strip and was able to clean 16 ft of sidewalk in 2 min 47 seconds. I am using a 18 HP honda with 18 inch surface cleaner. I did some rough math and with a 200 gallon tank filling at a hydrant, I'd spend approx 60 hours cleaning just the sidewalk and 20 hours refilling my tank.  I think the gutters will take me the same time to complete, so it is probably impossible to come in anywhere near where the guy came in last year. Please help?

[PeakOfPerfection]

What is the GPM on your machine? Hot or cold? Cleaning that much flatwork with an 18" surface cleaner is going to get old...really fast. 8-10 GPM and a Whisper Wash Big Guy 28" or a Maxima 36" are the ticket. DS some SH and surfactant beforehand and it should go pretty quick. I'm going to assume you are probably 5.5GPM if you are 18 HP...if so, then get a second 4-5.5 GPM machine and run them both. You can parallel PW rigs. You *can* run a 28" Big Guy on a 5.5 GPM machine with the right nozzles, but it will be painfully slow. In power washing, GPM is everything. GPM is what does the work. 

If you can get yourself into the 10+ GPM range, that will be enough to run a 36" Maxima which can do your typical 5' sidewalk in two passes. Even faster if you run hot, though you need to factor in heating fuel costs. You will need a bigger buffer tank. Pick up a cheap 350 Gal IBC tote and either add it or use it as a second buffer if you have the room. If you don't have them, install Hudson float valves and use them to keep the tanks filled during the job (assuming you have access to hydrants). There will be an investment in gear, but if you do it annually, then it is paid for first year and after that it is all gravy. Try to get a 3 year contract out of them. 

As for gutters...are they asking for just interior or interior and exterior? What is the tree coverage like? 

Pricing...that is where the investment in equipment starts to pay off. The faster you can go, the more per hour you will make given a fixed bid cost per sq ft.  If you switch to a 36" surface cleaner and add in a and it drops your flatwork time in half, the profit per square ft. equation starts to change. Your fuel costs will rise running two machines, but that is offset by shorter run times. T

I'd sit down with the board member and explain that the reason the last guy did such a terrible job is that he woefully undercharged just to get the job, probably lost money and thus rushed through, likely using subpar equipment and cleaning solutions because he couldn't afford to put the right equipment on the job. Tell them you are willing to invest in the right equipment if they are willing to pay a fair price and give you a commitment for several years. I'd probably start around $8000. I'd explain that over 16 days, you would normally make $16K doing roofs, but the reason to add the surface and gutter work is that you'd hope you would also get all the roofs in the community. If, on the other hand, they are unwilling to budge off that price, then I'd thank them for the opportunity and walk.

[WCP]

Thank you. This is exactly the response I was looking for. The question for me, is weather or not it's worth investing the money in better equipment or should I simply spend more time doing the job with the equipment that I have. So here is a list of what I might want to consider. 

1) Surface cleaner -  I think the only surface cleaner that makes since is the Maxima 36 inch because that would cut the number of passes in half where the big guy would only reduce the number of passes by a quarter. Either way it's at least 1K that I would have to spend on another surface cleaner. 

2) A second pressure washer unit to run in parallel with mine. I am thinking at least 2K for a used one. 

3) upgraged tank ($300.00) 

 

I just don't know if it is worth 3K -4K investment for this one job. For one, I don't have that amount of cash on hand. Secondly, I doubt that they would be willing to sign a three year contract. If I can't find more big flat work jobs like this, then I am back to roof cleaning. The 36 inch surface cleaner, 300 - 500 Gallon tank and a 10 GPM machine will all be of little use once this job is over. 

I think I factored 80 hours with the equipment I have now (without the gutters which are on both side of the street). With the gutters, maybe another 80 hours. Still that's a months worth of work that may pay as much as 8K. Even after taking out fuel cost and water cost, I am still walking away with 7K. Even if I could upgrade my equipment, and finish in half the time, I would only have 3K in profit. I guess I would have two weeks to find more jobs and earn money, but there is no guarantee on how many jobs I may or may not get in those two weeks. 

 

 

[PeakOfPerfection]

Okay...so yes, definitely an investment needed. However...you can always RENT a 5 GPM machine for a weekend. Hint...most rental yards give you Sundays free. Get the majority done and then touch up with the smaller cleaner. Roll the rental costs into your bid. Figure 5 days rental...but only 4 are charged...say $320. 

Maxima...yup, about a Grand. If you never did another flat work job, sell the Maxima, and recoup a good percentage. Section 179 the thing and you are money ahead. 

IBC totes...I've never paid more than $100 for one. Check with your local chem supplier. They might even have one to give you if you buy a lot of chem. They can often be found on Craigslist. 

That puts you in at $1100 with the surface cleaner and the tank. Figure a few bucks for some plumbing...say 

As for a multi year deal...you will never know until you ask! If you already did a demo on a section and they are happy...then just be straight up front and honest with the guy. Tell him you would like to be their go to guy for their cleaning needs and that you would be willing to invest in some equipment which would make things even better and more efficient. But to do so would require a large capital outlay. Tell him you are willing to do so, but in return would they be willing to agree to have you do the job for the next several years assuming they are happy. If he says yes, then you are golden. If he says no, then you can evaluate. Put it this way...you will be ahead from an hours standpoint if you used the Maxima and the second machine. It also gives you a psychological edge...that is big honkin' beast and draws attention. Makes you look professional when you show up with an impressive piece of equipment. Can't tell you how many times I get guys checking out my rigs and all the machinery. 

 

[Jeff]

You look at equipment as an investment, that will possibly be used for many jobs,..use this one to pay for the equipment and then you own it.  Stinks I know,..but that's how we move up in this business and separate ourselves from the guys doing it with sub par equipment.  Get an 8 GPM machine,..I think once you go 10+ GPM you have to go to 1/2" hose,..at least if you're running 200'. That would get HEAVY.

A job like that requires a tank float and then just hook up to any water source. The way you first described doing this job would be a serious PITA.  Yes,.you need upgraded equipment here,..you may land more work from just looking like you're prepared for the task at hand.

If hooking up to a water source is available everywhere, you're going to have to figure out a way to get more water onsite. 300 gallons doesn't last long doing flat work. 

Do it the way you described  for 1/4 of the job,..then go buy the new stuff and it will seem more worth it to you. 

Jeff

[WCP]

OK, I am trying to follow the advice given here. Here is some more info to chew on. The Hydrants in the neighborhood are no more then 1,000 feet apart and are the AA rated hydrants, which I believe give them 1500 GPM. Jeff mentioned tank float and hooking up to any water source. The problem with this however is that the HOA guy does not want me borrowing water from any residence. I guess the guy last year stated off stealing water from a vacant house and they were not happy about it. They do have adapters that go from a hydrant 2 " output to a 3/4 inch out. Cheap garden hose is 20 bucks for 100 feet. For $100.00 I could have 500 feet of garden hose to my tank. What are your thoughts on this. If I can do this, then that eliminated the need for a bigger tank. 

    The second issue is paring two units like mine together. The problem is however that no one around here rents a 5.5 GPM @ 4,000 PSI unit. Even If I could find a unit like that to rent and pair up, more then one person has advised against that much water flow though 3/8 inch pressure line. I think I can get 100 Ft. of 1/2 pressure washer hose for $250.00. Would the 36 inch surface cleaner need to be modified at this point, or could it take the 1/2 inch input? 

    Maybe a better solution would be to simply upgrade my pump to 8 GPM @ 3500 PSI and keep the 3/8 inch pressure hose? Would this help or would I just be trading PSI for GPM ( 8 GPM from 5.5 GPM at the cost of PSI  4,000 PSI to 3500 PSI)?  WIth my 18 HP motor I am likely to only see 8 GPM @ 3000 PSI. I could by a 22 HP preditor motor from harbor freight for $700.00 but I heard they are POS?

    The other questions is what would my GPM be at the end of a 500 ft garden hose? 

Edited August 26, 2015 by WCP

[WCP]

I came across a PIC of someone who has made a Predator 22 HP pressure washer. I guess with a 20% - 25% coupon one can get these for about $560.00.  AR pump for approx $500.00, poly chain and a few other parts and you have a kick A** pressure washer.