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Air Diaphragm vs. 12 Volt vs. Gas Powered Pump Systems??

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FWIW, that AC I mention in post above lists for anywhere from $2199 at Northern Tool up to $2479 on other websites. 

 

Any opinions on this AC or the brand or the website? They have a "haggle it" feature which I have never seen before but they will accept my bid of $1900 delivered. This is almost $400 cheaper than the similar Eaton after shipping and I can get it shipped in a couple days versus waiting at least 3 weeks and probably longer for the Eaton. The warranty is not as good being only 2 years verus 3 years on the motor and 5 on everything else. 

 

 

http://www.compressorworld.com/piston-air-compressors/gas-driven-air-compressors/rcp-1230g-14-hp-kohler-gas-air-compressor-manufactured-from-chicago-pneumatic-25-3-cfm.html

 

No, oh HELL No, this is not even close to the Eaton Compressor in Quality. 

My advice is to hold out for the Eaton

The compressor link you gave is for a Chicago Pneumatic Brand, that is a Harbor Freight Brand.

 

The Eaton is an entirely different animal. 

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No, oh HELL No, this is not even close to the Eaton Compressor in Quality. 

My advice is to hold out for the Eaton

The compressor link you gave is for a Chicago Pneumatic Brand, that is a Harbor Freight Brand.

 

The Eaton is an entirely different animal. 

Actually the HF brand is Central Pneumatic and this one is Chicago Pneumatic. I am pretty sure HF was trying to copy/confuse people and it works. 

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Chicago Pneumatic is a legit company...or at least they are now as part of Atlas Copco having been acquired by them. Take a look at the specs....there are hardly any on the Chicago Pneumatic and there is zero information on their website. Not sure if somebody else made it for them or not....no way to tell. The Eaton is definitely US Built and if you call them, you can talk with a human every time including the president of the company who I had a nice chat with yesterday. Weight....Chicago Pneumatic...assuming that is correct and it probably isn't.... 320. Equivalent Eaton 630. 2 yr warranty vs 5 yr. Kohler vs Honda engine. I hugely oversized slow running compressor head vs. ???

The CP IS rated at AFCM which is GOOD...though it doesn't say at what pressure. You would expect this from the same company who makes Atlas Copco and Grimmer Schmidt. It doesn't exist on their website that I couldfind so you can't look it up. I suspect those may be one offs left over from before CP was acquired by Atlas Copco so parts support may be iffy. It would be worth doing some more homework on it and calling Chicago Pneumatic for the story before pulling the trigger. Might be a great unit....just not enough info.

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I have owned several large air compressors, all bought USED, never new.

Some brands I have owned are Bel Air, Rol Air, Quincy, come to mind.

I have never owned an Eaton

 

We currently have one of these big boys from HF, and it is a beast. 

 

All day today, I have been studying air compressors, and almost NONE have american parts anymore. Even the Rol Air Pumps are made in Italy, and some pumps are from Brazil.  They may CLAIM to be American Made, and some are, but from foreign parts :)

 

A BIG Air Compressor can easily weight 300 + Pounds, do you really want to pull that Mother off the truck, and return it ?

 

Harbor Freight Air Compressors used to be junk, pure junk. But they seem to have come a long long way, from what they once were.

 

Plus, not only are they inexpensive, but they have extended warranties you can buy fairly cheap, that covers your ass, should they break.

 

This Harbor Freight Air Compressor is not rated as highly for CFM, as the Bel Air Compressor it replaced. But it will spray circles around our old Bel Air, perhaps because it is new ?

 

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I am most likely going to pull the trigger on the HF compressor tomorrow. It is in stock at my local store so I can save some shipping and I can have it immediately versus waiting 3-4 weeks for the Eaton. Is it as good as the Eaton? Probably not even close but I can't work without one so I should be lots of money ahead (as I have jobs waiting on me) by the time the Eaton would have come in. I am nervous about anything HF but I think I will roll the dice. I will keep everyone posted on how it plays out. 

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Having a working rig and making money is more important than not making money. Ultimately, getting out there and cleaning roofs is the goal. Might want to find out about the HF warranty. I understand they just give you a new one if it breaks. Might be worth it depending on cost since you are going to run it harder than the average contractor or homeowner. 

 

What did you end up getting for your water separation setup? 

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I got both of these for the airline.

 

1/2" Coilhose Regulator /

Filter Combo

 

and then this water separator 

 

SMC AMG350C-N04C Water Separator, N.C. Auto Drain, 1,500 L/min, 1/2" NPT

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009VQ0GP8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Looks like a winner to me! 

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This compressor thing just seems to never end. :) As I said I decided to get the big HF (I haven't bought it yet) compressor but of course it is not that simple. The dang thing weighs over 500#'s and they load it up for you with a forklift. That is good EXCEPT my cargo trailer has a ramp door in the back and it won't support the weight of a forklift especially one carrying the weight of the HF beast compressor. So, I am open to any ideas on how to get the dang thing in there. I have considered using a two wheel dolly and a couple of huge guys to muscle it in there but I am not really sure how to get a two wheeler under it since the tank is 3" of the ground. It comes on a crate so maybe that would work if I could get the two wheeler under it. The other option is to just get a bunch of guys and try to carry the thing in there but there is not exactly handles on it to make that easy. I have thought about maybe buying a 4 wheel furniture dolly that HF sells and have the forklift set the crate on it and then having a small army push it up the ramp. Taking the ramp off is an option but I would have to have someone that knows how to work on garage door springs to remove them and then put them back on. That may be the best idea. Any other ideas?

My other option is to do something completely different and a bit out of the ordinary. That would be to buy two of the HF wheelbarrow compressors and run them in tandem. I could hook both air hoses up to a tee into a single line that passes thru the regulator and dryer then to my pump. This would in effect give me double what one compressor could which would be about 18 cfm together minus any lost efficiencies from the tee, etc. I would use 1/2" for all lines. I would have 18 gallons of storage and could easily add another tank if needed. I see some pros and cons to this setup but I find it pretty interesting. Pros would be several. The most obvious is I could easily move these compressors around as needed and split them up if ever needed. Also this setup would save close to 200#'s on my 3500# axle which could be pretty important. I could run only one AC as needed if desired and only run both on the jobs that need it. I could rotate the one I used to spread out wear and tear. This would be more efficient fuel wise than always running the big one. Plus if one does breakdown I still have a second one to get by on versus being dead in the water. Heck I could add a third one if I really need some pop!

The cons as I see it would be having to start two machines and having double the maintenance issues. I am not sure if two little ones will be louder than one big one or not. I think the airflow would be pretty consistent and maybe even more consistent than just coming from one machine but I don't know.They would weigh much less but would take up more floor space. However, it would be easy to build a rack and stack them if I want and I could make a place for the pump as well on the rack.  I talked to a guy from Eaton and he said it would definitely work so long as the ACs are similar in psi which they would be. He also suggested on the big one I tip it up and bolt a 2x4 under the back legs and then the front legs and then push the thing like a sled up the ramp. That seems like a hard way to do it but I bet I could roll it on round dowel rods or broom handles like they moved the stones for the pyramids. 

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You've got the right idea. Put it on 2x4s and slide it up the ramp rolling it on pvc pipe. Worst case is get a couple guys to pull it up with a rope and a few pushing it. Done deal. The only bad thing I see about buying 2 small compressors is the space they will take up. Maybe you can find an auto shop or have a friend with a giant compressor in the garage and test your pump at different cfm to see what you gain from the extra air. You might find that one wheelbarrow compressor is all you need.

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I don't know how to put the actual video on here but this link below if it works talks about HF's commitment to quality and may explain why some of their tools seem to have gone from complete shiz to pretty darn good recently. 

 

http://videos.sorensonmedia.com/Harbor+Freight+Tools/HF+QA+Vegas_final/bd27d61dhe985C4f9d49bbega8f151b161e3

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I don't know how to put the actual video on here but this link below if it works talks about HF's commitment to quality and may explain why some of their tools seem to have gone from complete shiz to pretty darn good recently. 

 

http://videos.sorensonmedia.com/Harbor+Freight+Tools/HF+QA+Vegas_final/bd27d61dhe985C4f9d49bbega8f151b161e3

They need to test their regulators. I had several fall apart on me. No problems with the Coilhose reg so far. Other than that, pretty good for tools and Chris is having decent luck with their air compressors...though I am still skeptical. I've been badly burned on some Chinese build engine driven stuff including one of their Pressure washers that literally lasted one job before the pump went kaplooey. 

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My pump appears to be doa. I am going to try to put a really short video on here of the temporary setup I rigged just to see if it would work in case I am doing something stupid. I couldn't get it to pump anything with my small electric ac so I rented a wheelbarrow gas one to see how it would work and also to help me decide which compressor size to buy and it seems like it wants to work but does not pump at all. It goes pop pop pop pop pop from the exhaust pretty fast but that is. When I put my hand over the inlet line end it does not even seem to be sucking at all. I don't know if this link will work or not. The seller has offered to refund my money including shipping but then I am pumpless. 

 

 

 

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I decided to take flange and everything else off and just stick the pump intake in the bucket and it immediately started pumping water. Then I put the flange back on and it pumped water. Then I put the little clear hose and fitting back on and nothing. Not a drop. I submerged the entire flange with the hose on it and still nothing. I took the hose and fitting back off and away she pumps. It seems as if the hose and fitting are air tight. I give up. There must be a reason. Surely this pump does not have to be gravity fed does it? Graco Husky Model 1050. 

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Your 5/8" garden hose suction line is the problem. too much restriction on that 1" pump. its like sucking a milkshake from a coffee straw. get rid of that hose thing you have and put 1.5" hose on it and do the test again.

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Agreed. The pump appears to be stalling from too small a feed line and the feed line doesn't appear to be a suction grade line. Suction lines are heavily reinforced to not collapse under draw. 1" is the minimum and should work fine. 1.5" is definitely better and will lead to fewer locking issues. This is one reason to use a Camlock on the output. If the pump locks up, and like any pump they will do it occasionally...usually when you have run a tank dry, 99 times out of 100 removing the spray line from the the output end and turning the pump air on briefly will reprime it. This cam lead to an amusing fountain if your output points upwards like on my Hastelloy pumps. Hint....assuming you are freshwater fed....wait until an unsuspecting employee is on the truck before turning on the air. Good way to cool down on a hot day. Don't do this to somebody with SH in the line.

The pump IS working if you dunk the intake end into your bucket and it pumps thru your spray hose. Also make sure your spray hose end is open when you prime if there is a valve on the end.

I hear the pump struggling to prime....you can hear it slowing down a bit at the end.

Goodyear Spiralflex PVC Aggie hose or the Parker Hose Equivalent is what you want. Good, cheap and reliable.

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Right, wrong or indifferent I am now the proud owner of the big HF compressor beast! I I have already paid for if and will be picking up this afternoon. I finally worked out all the details of how to get it into the trailer, moved into position and secured. They will take it off of the big pallet that it comes on but it will still have a small pallet underneath it that the forklift can pick up and stick it in through the door of my trailer onto one of those little furniture dollies that they sell so we can wheel it into position and they have agreed to help me get it off of the dolly. What they don't know is they are also going to help me get it off of the pallet onto 2 x 4's that are running perpendicular to the tank that I will lag bolt the compressor to. :) This will give me a solid base that should not turn over. Once I am sure where I want it I can attach to the trailer floor and/or frame possibly using a rubber mat under the 2 bys to absorb vibrations

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Now you just need it mounted, some fuel, and a way to start it and you are good to go. Think about how you want to deal with the exhaust fumes too since you are running enclosed. Bring...or buy...plenty of tie downs until that beast is fully and securely bolted to the trailer. You don't want to make a sudden stop or turn and put a big giant dent in your trailer. 

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And the journey continues. I need a filter/regulator and a water separator, both of which I have and at least 10' of airline and 20' is better but I don't know how to hook it all up or where to buy it. I assume I come off the ac with the 20' hose and then hook into the water separator and then use a short hose of maybe 1' or 2' into the filter/regulator and then use a short hose of maybe 3' or 4' feet to hook into the pump? If this is correct or even if I have the ws and f/r reversed where do I get these short hoses? I can find a 25' 1/2'' hose but all I can find are 24" whip hoses with swivels at Grainger for about $19 each. Surely there is a better answer than that. 

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