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Air Diaphragm vs. 12 Volt vs. Gas Powered Pump Systems??

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I am convinced now that the air system is the way I want to go and I understand that a big pump can work with an "undersized" compressor but I don't really understand how to judge the actual size of the compressor. I know that a compressor with more horse power is more powerful than one with less but I am not sure what psi I want to look at for cfm, etc. Do I look at 90 psi to compare cfm from one compressor to another? 40? If one compressor has less hp but more cfm does hp matter? Also, what about tank size? Do I want 8 gal or 30? I assume the smaller tank size will cycle the pump more but I don't know. Let's say I buy the 1" pump from PWP and pare it with 9 hp 16.5 cfm@90 psi Ironhorse from Air Compressors Direct. Obviously this compressor will not max out the pump by a long shot but will it be a good match? Or would it make more sense to buy a smaller pump and maybe a smaller compressor if that combo does not really provide much advantage over a small pump and compressor? My goal is to be able to hit most roofs especially the steeper ones from a ladder so I need some reach. Also, I see that some people use the large plastic tanks in a cage that you can buy cheap just about anywhere but I am concerned if the SH will eat thru the cap on the bottom especially if I use it for full strength. Is there a better source for cheap tanks? Links below. I would greatly appreciate any input including other options I did not mention. I know I can buy the HF compressor and the 3/8 pump pretty cheap but I am looking to get into a more longer term setup. Thanks!

 

 

http://shop.pressurewasherproducts.com/ALL-FLO-1-AIR-DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-40-GPM-AFKE10.htm

 

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Iron-Horse-IHP90G25H1-Air-Compressor/p5504

 

htmlhttps://springfield.craigslist.org/grd/4851329707.html

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I am convinced now that the air system is the way I want to go and I understand that a big pump can work with an "undersized" compressor but I don't really understand how to judge the actual size of the compressor. I know that a compressor with more horse power is more powerful than one with less but I am not sure what psi I want to look at for cfm, etc. Do I look at 90 psi to compare cfm from one compressor to another? 40? If one compressor has less hp but more cfm does hp matter? Also, what about tank size? Do I want 8 gal or 30? I assume the smaller tank size will cycle the pump more but I don't know. Let's say I buy the 1" pump from PWP and pare it with 9 hp 16.5 cfm@90 psi Ironhorse from Air Compressors Direct. Obviously this compressor will not max out the pump by a long shot but will it be a good match? Or would it make more sense to buy a smaller pump and maybe a smaller compressor if that combo does not really provide much advantage over a small pump and compressor? My goal is to be able to hit most roofs especially the steeper ones from a ladder so I need some reach. Also, I see that some people use the large plastic tanks in a cage that you can buy cheap just about anywhere but I am concerned if the SH will eat thru the cap on the bottom especially if I use it for full strength. Is there a better source for cheap tanks? Links below. I would greatly appreciate any input including other options I did not mention. I know I can buy the HF compressor and the 3/8 pump pretty cheap but I am looking to get into a more longer term setup. Thanks!

 

 

http://shop.pressurewasherproducts.com/ALL-FLO-1-AIR-DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-40-GPM-AFKE10.htm

 

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Iron-Horse-IHP90G25H1-Air-Compressor/p5504

 

htmlhttps://springfield.craigslist.org/grd/4851329707.html

To really get the most out of a 1 inch air powered roof cleaning pump, it would be nice to have 25 cfm or so.

But, many have found that the Big Harbor Freight 30 gallon air compressor works very well with them.

Always buy an air compressor on tank size, and actual Horsepower, because they play games with CFM Ratings :(

Please don't forget that you are a premium member here! That means from 11 am till 11 pm 7 days a week, you can call me at 813 655 8777 for help and advice.

Big, 1 inch pumps can easily be capable of 40+ GPM flow, with around 20 to 25 CFM air compressors.

Always remember, when you restrict Flow, you create pressure, needed to really shoot.

There was a used Graco 1 inch Poly pump just on EBAY for only 299.00 from SuniferTech, the guy a lot of us buy pumps from!

It is capable of 49 GPM flow!

This ebay seller goes all through the stuff he sells, and will not sell shit.

If it were me, I would grab this pump, and with the money I saved, buy me a Heroic air compressor, and you will shoot roofs with ease

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Thanks so much! I hopped on that pump like a duck on a Junebug. :) Now to find a heroic air compressor! You just saved me enough money to pay for my membership for many years and I definitely will be calling you for help and advice in the future! 

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Thanks so much! I hopped on that pump like a duck on a Junebug. :) Now to find a heroic air compressor! You just saved me enough money to pay for my membership for many years and I definitely will be calling you for help and advice in the future!

Good Job Clayton :)

Did u get the Graco 1 inch pump Clayton ? If so Brother, it has flange connections, so you will either need some connecting flanges, or another idea is simply to TAP the inner manifolds for a more conventional screw in hose barb type of fitting.

That was once a 1500.00 Pump, and is made from THICK Virgin Poly. While not quite as good as KYNAR, rinse it out when done using it, and literally it can last for years!

A 1 inch pump is LOAFING for our use, and barely moves. It will sit there and "fart" about every 5 to 10 seconds, vs a 3/8 All Flow, that goes rat a tat tat all the time.

Because the pump moves less, it will last much longer.

NEVER buy a used air compressor, if you can help it.

Quincy makes some balls to the walls air compressors. With 25 CFM of air, you will approach 49 gpm with your new pump, and not only will it shoot like a motherfunker, it will also spray like a Male Cat.

With your big pump, you will be able to clean roofs so fast, you will hope that your customers are not home, because they might be reluctant to pay you.

You can easily steal big commercial shingle roof cleaning jobs, because your pump will spray a roof faster then you can walk it!

And, all because you had the wisdom to find and join the RCIA :)

I see potential roof cleaners wasting their time at other places, and Facebook, where it is often like Stevie Wonder driving Ray Charles around.

But some, like yourself, have the good fortune to find the RCIA, a place dedicated to only cleaning roofs, and the equipment needed to do so.

Glad to be of help to you :)

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I am convinced now that the air system is the way I want to go and I understand that a big pump can work with an "undersized" compressor but I don't really understand how to judge the actual size of the compressor. I know that a compressor with more horse power is more powerful than one with less but I am not sure what psi I want to look at for cfm, etc. Do I look at 90 psi to compare cfm from one compressor to another? 40? If one compressor has less hp but more cfm does hp matter? Also, what about tank size? Do I want 8 gal or 30? I assume the smaller tank size will cycle the pump more but I don't know. Let's say I buy the 1" pump from PWP and pare it with 9 hp 16.5 cfm@90 psi Ironhorse from Air Compressors Direct. Obviously this compressor will not max out the pump by a long shot but will it be a good match? Or would it make more sense to buy a smaller pump and maybe a smaller compressor if that combo does not really provide much advantage over a small pump and compressor? My goal is to be able to hit most roofs especially the steeper ones from a ladder so I need some reach. Also, I see that some people use the large plastic tanks in a cage that you can buy cheap just about anywhere but I am concerned if the SH will eat thru the cap on the bottom especially if I use it for full strength. Is there a better source for cheap tanks? Links below. I would greatly appreciate any input including other options I did not mention. I know I can buy the HF compressor and the 3/8 pump pretty cheap but I am looking to get into a more longer term setup. Thanks!

http://shop.pressurewasherproducts.com/ALL-FLO-1-AIR-DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-40-GPM-AFKE10.htm

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Iron-Horse-IHP90G25H1-Air-Compressor/p5504

htmlhttps://springfield.craigslist.org/grd/4851329707.html

Compressor ratings can be tricky. That being said, the easiest thing is to look at is the 90 CFM rating as it is near the max pressure you want to run your pump at. Be careful if the rating says displacement. Displacement ratings are not actual tested airflow, they are a theoretical based on the size of the piston cylinder area. The lower the PSI, the higher the CFM. The Iron Horse....casual use units, not what I would run in a commercial operation.

Does horsepower matter? Yes. Compressors run under load and a higher horsepower motor will not be as stressed. Quality of the compressor matters. There is a very good reason a Quincy or Ingersol Rand or Eaton runs what it does. They are commercial grade machines designed to run continuously. The cheaper units are contractor grade, designed to run a few hours a week. A busy roof cleaner will run their compressor 4-6 hours a DAY. A $500 difference may make the difference between getting years out of the machine or replacing it after a year or two. That is one roof. $1000 more...two roofs. In an air system, the compressor is the life blood so investing a bit more in a good one will pay dividends.

Will a smaller pump work for you? Depends on your roofs. 4000 sq foot steep two story roofs or a lot of moss the norm? Probably not. Lot of single story or smaller two story roofs without much moss? 1/2" pump will be fine....but run 5/8" hose. Then again if you have BIG projects...get a 1" pump and a bigger compressor. You can afford it and yiur productivity will go up.

In essence, try to look for at least 20 CFM at 90 PSI. More is not gonna hurt. To max out the pump, look for a 40 CFM compressor. I am looking for a 40-60 CFM compressor right now. Why? Because we also have our compressor hooked up to an air reel and use it to blow debris off roofs. With a 20 CFM compressor, this is slow because a blow hose eats air at a furious rate. Having a much larger free air rating will make a difference to me. You may never do this. Then again you may have never thought of it.

A 20 CFM compressor with your All Flo....which I assume is a KT10, is going to give yiu around 18 GPM at 60 PSI. Not too shabby. Best possible bang for the buck with reliability, excellent warranty if you won't use a blow down setup?

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/536572/1386289.HTM

Want to Max things out?

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/536572/344947.htm

Running full strength SH on a roof. No. Never. Not ever. Waste of money, waste of chem. Won't hurt the pump but have lots of spray nozzles, quick connects and for GOD's Sake respirators and PPE equipment. God help you if you overspray or drip. 50/50 mix is the absolute strongest anybody ever goes and that is only on nasty tile. Asphalt is typically 25-30% SH depending on temps. Hotter it is the lower your mix strength can be.

Tank. First off, why do you need a chem tank this big? Do you have extremely large commercial or multi unit residential jobs booked? As a rinse tank, it is fine. As a chem tank, bit big. It is pretty rare you will go thru more than 150 gal of mix in a day and one advantage to air is the ability to use LESS Chem. That being said, if yiu want to run a tank that size then yes the skid is a concern. Coat it. Plasti dip is cheap. Works well. POR-15 is expensive, works the best if covered with Plasti dip after curing.

What are you running for a vehicle? You need to calculate yiur weights running a big compressor, bigger hoses and a big tank.

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Regarding a poly pump. Rinse rinse rinse. Also check the diaphragm and seal material. It needs to be SH proof like PVDF (teflon) or Viton. While the poly body can withstand SH for a while, the movable parts will be eaten away rapidly if they are not resistant. If it has EPDM or Butyl diaphragms or seals and balls, it will eat the balls and seals and lose a ton of pressure, or worse blow a diaphragm and flood the air section with SH. Not good. Plan on replacing the fluid chambers after a few years....Gary ran a poly ARO pump which is also a pretty thick body and he ate thru a fluid chamber after a season or so.

Post the specific pump model and I can tell yiu what it has.

Granted you would have definitely made your money on it by then but remember the first law of Roof Cleaning Equipment...

If it will break, it will break in the middle of an expensive time sensitive job.

This is why Kynar and Hastelloy pumps are more expensive and more desirable for roof cleaning use. Those materials can pump hot hydrochloric acid and not care. They are impervious to SH and will last years. With a Poly pump, look for a backup to purchase in a few months and make sure you have a spare set of diaphragms, balls and seals or better yet upgrade to teflon diaphragms and Kynar balls and seals. Or better yet, get a few roofs in, then buy an impervious pump and resell the poly one.

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I am in agreement with everything Kevin just posted. Quincy and Eaton air compressors are total Beasts, and will serve you well, for a long long time.

There is never such a thing as "too much air", and better too much, then too little.

A 1 inch air operated roof cleaning pump, with over 20 CFM behind it, is a marvelous tool, and should be thegoal of every serious roof cleaner.

I know a guy who does a lot of big commercial roof cleaning jobs. He got a real deal on a Price 2 inch air pump, and got a diesel powered 45 cfm air compressor at a machinery auction over in Orlando.

I was with him once on a Red Roof Inn, and it took that huge hotel roof down in record time. Of course, he uses 3/4 inch hose as well.

Just for kicks, he showed me how far it shot, and it was almost frightening. Even at "only" 125 psi, it shot a stream of chemical a hard to believe distance, because a 2 inch air pump, with 45 CFM, is over 50 GPM.

Always remember, when you restrict Flow, you create pressure!

The Price 2 inch air pump is not made out of Kynar, it is only Poly, but it is made from a solid chunk of VIRGIN Poly, that is nearly an inch thick :)

It has Santoprene insides, and lasted nearly 2 1/2 years, before it was rebuild time. It has never leaked, despite being made out of Poly, and not KYNAR, because it is not fiberglass reinforced Poly, it is VIRGIN Poly.

Big Difference, so stay away from Fiberglass reinforced Poly, cause the SH will attack the fiberglass.

Having a big enough air compressor to USE a 1 or 2 inch air pump can be a wonderful thing, because big 1 to 2 inch air pumps do not sell very well, on the used market. This is because you really need a big ass air compressor to take full advantage of them.

Few have these big air compressors, so the resale value of the big 1 to 2 inch air pumps is quite low.

There are some real deals to be had on these used 1 to 2 inch air pumps, and they literally "last forever", because they are just loafing for our use.

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Good Job Clayton :)

Did u get the Graco 1 inch pump Clayton ? If so Brother, it has flange connections, so you will either need some connecting flanges, or another idea is simply to TAP the inner manifolds for a more conventional screw in hose barb type of fitting.

That was once a 1500.00 Pump, and is made from THICK Virgin Poly. While not quite as good as KYNAR, rinse it out when done using it, and literally it can last for years!

A 1 inch pump is LOAFING for our use, and barely moves. It will sit there and "fart" about every 5 to 10 seconds, vs a 3/8 All Flow, that goes rat a tat tat all the time.

Because the pump moves less, it will last much longer.

NEVER buy a used air compressor, if you can help it.

Quincy makes some balls to the walls air compressors. With 25 CFM of air, you will approach 49 gpm with your new pump, and not only will it shoot like a motherfunker, it will also spray like a Male Cat.

With your big pump, you will be able to clean roofs so fast, you will hope that your customers are not home, because they might be reluctant to pay you.

You can easily steal big commercial shingle roof cleaning jobs, because your pump will spray a roof faster then you can walk it!

And, all because you had the wisdom to find and join the RCIA :)

I see potential roof cleaners wasting their time at other places, and Facebook, where it is often like Stevie Wonder driving Ray Charles around.

But some, like yourself, have the good fortune to find the RCIA, a place dedicated to only cleaning roofs, and the equipment needed to do so.

Glad to be of help to you :)

Dang it. I pecked out a lengthy reply and somehow deleted it before I could send it. Oh well. Yes I got the Graco pump! It is supposed to arrive by Feb 2nd. Is tapping the inner manifold something I can do easily or should I have someone who knows what they are doing do it? I know when Peak of Perfection was selling those huge Hastelloy pumps he found the flange on Amazon. I looked on there for these but I really don't know what I am looking for. 

A used air compressor scares me so I doubt I will buy one unless I get it for next to nothing.

I am a little concerned with getting the job done too quickly but I plan to sell the fact I am using a monster system as a plus so I can set the customer's expectation in advance. 

I do agree that joining the RCIA was wise. In fact, it seems to be about the best $129 I have spent and I am not just saying it. Where else do you get the advice of experienced people that clearly know what they are doing and obviously love helping and love what they are talking about? I am very impressed!

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Compressor ratings can be tricky. That being said, the easiest thing is to look at is the 90 CFM rating as it is near the max pressure you want to run your pump at. Be careful if the rating says displacement. Displacement ratings are not actual tested airflow, they are a theoretical based on the size of the piston cylinder area. The lower the PSI, the higher the CFM. The Iron Horse....casual use units, not what I would run in a commercial operation.

Does horsepower matter? Yes. Compressors run under load and a higher horsepower motor will not be as stressed. Quality of the compressor matters. There is a very good reason a Quincy or Ingersol Rand or Eaton runs what it does. They are commercial grade machines designed to run continuously. The cheaper units are contractor grade, designed to run a few hours a week. A busy roof cleaner will run their compressor 4-6 hours a DAY. A $500 difference may make the difference between getting years out of the machine or replacing it after a year or two. That is one roof. $1000 more...two roofs. In an air system, the compressor is the life blood so investing a bit more in a good one will pay dividends.

Will a smaller pump work for you? Depends on your roofs. 4000 sq foot steep two story roofs or a lot of moss the norm? Probably not. Lot of single story or smaller two story roofs without much moss? 1/2" pump will be fine....but run 5/8" hose. Then again if you have BIG projects...get a 1" pump and a bigger compressor. You can afford it and yiur productivity will go up.

In essence, try to look for at least 20 CFM at 90 PSI. More is not gonna hurt. To max out the pump, look for a 40 CFM compressor. I am looking for a 40-60 CFM compressor right now. Why? Because we also have our compressor hooked up to an air reel and use it to blow debris off roofs. With a 20 CFM compressor, this is slow because a blow hose eats air at a furious rate. Having a much larger free air rating will make a difference to me. You may never do this. Then again you may have never thought of it.

A 20 CFM compressor with your All Flo....which I assume is a KT10, is going to give yiu around 18 GPM at 60 PSI. Not too shabby. Best possible bang for the buck with reliability, excellent warranty if you won't use a blow down setup?

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/536572/1386289.HTM

Want to Max things out?

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/536572/344947.htm

Running full strength SH on a roof. No. Never. Not ever. Waste of money, waste of chem. Won't hurt the pump but have lots of spray nozzles, quick connects and for GOD's Sake respirators and PPE equipment. God help you if you overspray or drip. 50/50 mix is the absolute strongest anybody ever goes and that is only on nasty tile. Asphalt is typically 25-30% SH depending on temps. Hotter it is the lower your mix strength can be.

Tank. First off, why do you need a chem tank this big? Do you have extremely large commercial or multi unit residential jobs booked? As a rinse tank, it is fine. As a chem tank, bit big. It is pretty rare you will go thru more than 150 gal of mix in a day and one advantage to air is the ability to use LESS Chem. That being said, if yiu want to run a tank that size then yes the skid is a concern. Coat it. Plasti dip is cheap. Works well. POR-15 is expensive, works the best if covered with Plasti dip after curing.

What are you running for a vehicle? You need to calculate yiur weights running a big compressor, bigger hoses and a big tank.

Thanks for the compressor explanation. I prefer to buy commercial quality when I can as I would buy it once rather than over and over plus all the down time and frustration and embarrassment a lower quality product can cause. Like you say, the price difference in the better compressors is really pretty small and actually the cheaper ones could cost you many times the difference in downtime. The warranty on those Polar Air compressors you suggested is phenomenal! There are lots of units out there that cost about the same with nothing even close! I have emailed them for the lead time on the 13 horse unit which is the one I am leaning towards. 

We have all sizes of homes here including some huge ones, but we have very little moss except on shady cedar roofs. We a;so have very few roofs with pine needles on them. Mostly a few leaves and LOTS of algae. I think the 1/2" would be fine for most jobs but I see no reason not to step up. I almost bought a pre-made electric skid that I still think is a very nice setup but for less than what I would have paid for it I can much much more capability. The reason I was buying the skid was because it was ready to go and that is comforting when you first start out. I see now that doing it yourself is not really that hard.

On the big tanks, I was looking at them just because they were cheap. I certainly dont need that big of one. Also, I didnt mean to run full strength SH on the roof. I was talking about using one of those big tanks to hold full strength or as the mix tank. I am concerned if I do that one day 250 gals of SH will have come gushing out of the hole where the fitting used to be before the SH ate it.

Ahhh, the vehicle. That is now a bigger concern since I have gone from the electric skid to the air system. I have a 6x10 enclosed cargo trailer that I will be pulling with the trusty Grand Caravan in the beginning. Neither of these can stand up to too much weight as the trailer has a 3500# axle and the Caravan can pull 3600 #'s and well, is a Caravan. I plan to be in a pickup in a couple months so I have to think longer term but have to make it there first. I plan on carrying to the job extra full strength SH in one tank, enough full strength SH in the mix tank and adding water to it on site. I guess I could always just carry the full strength and then do the mix in a big trash can thingie for awhile to save some weight. Not exactly the image I am wanting to put out there but it is an enclosed trailer. :)

I do concrete too so I have a commercial 4 gpm portable cold water unit and surface cleaner, etc to tote around as well to add to the weight issue. 

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Dang it. I pecked out a lengthy reply and somehow deleted it before I could send it. Oh well. Yes I got the Graco pump! It is supposed to arrive by Feb 2nd. Is tapping the inner manifold something I can do easily or should I have someone who knows what they are doing do it? I know when Peak of Perfection was selling those huge Hastelloy pumps he found the flange on Amazon. I looked on there for these but I really don't know what I am looking for. 

A used air compressor scares me so I doubt I will buy one unless I get it for next to nothing.

I am a little concerned with getting the job done too quickly but I plan to sell the fact I am using a monster system as a plus so I can set the customer's expectation in advance. 

I do agree that joining the RCIA was wise. In fact, it seems to be about the best $129 I have spent and I am not just saying it. Where else do you get the advice of experienced people that clearly know what they are doing and obviously love helping and love what they are talking about? I am very impressed!

You can either go Flange with gasket, or Tap the Manifold, but you must remove the manifold, or risk plastic shavings getting into your pump.

Flanges are the safest way to do it, and there are heavy plactic flanges to be had, made out of PVC.

Just try and get Teflon or Viton Flange Gaskets, stay away from EDPM if at all possible.

And, you are correct, most of us here are serious veteran roof cleaners who love what we do, and also love helping others, who come here and are serious.

Now, with all that money we were able to save you, you need to be thinking a new air compressor. Sometimes, you are able to find a good used one, but not very often.

Kevin from Peak Of Perfection Roof Cleaning has spent a considerable amount of time comparing air compressors, the big ones.

I would pick his brain, to see what his latest thoughts on them are.

Because I am down in Tampa, where roofs are mostly 1 story, and seldom steep, my needs are different.

The largest Harbor Freight 30 gallon air compressor is more then enough, for us.

In fact, even the smaller harbor freight wheelbarrow compressor with the 7 hp Predator motor is usually enough.

But, when you are up north, and spraying a 10/12 pitch 2 story roof from a ladder on a windy day, you need all the air you can get!

The more CFM, the more flow your big pump will make.

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Regarding a poly pump. Rinse rinse rinse. Also check the diaphragm and seal material. It needs to be SH proof like PVDF (teflon) or Viton. While the poly body can withstand SH for a while, the movable parts will be eaten away rapidly if they are not resistant. If it has EPDM or Butyl diaphragms or seals and balls, it will eat the balls and seals and lose a ton of pressure, or worse blow a diaphragm and flood the air section with SH. Not good. Plan on replacing the fluid chambers after a few years....Gary ran a poly ARO pump which is also a pretty thick body and he ate thru a fluid chamber after a season or so.

Post the specific pump model and I can tell yiu what it has.

Granted you would have definitely made your money on it by then but remember the first law of Roof Cleaning Equipment...

If it will break, it will break in the middle of an expensive time sensitive job.

This is why Kynar and Hastelloy pumps are more expensive and more desirable for roof cleaning use. Those materials can pump hot hydrochloric acid and not care. They are impervious to SH and will last years. With a Poly pump, look for a backup to purchase in a few months and make sure you have a spare set of diaphragms, balls and seals or better yet upgrade to teflon diaphragms and Kynar balls and seals. Or better yet, get a few roofs in, then buy an impervious pump and resell the poly one.

I will post a link to the Ebay page for the pump below. You will have to scroll down I bit to get all the info like diaphragm etc, but it is a Graco model 1050. I just noticed it said muffler not included. I guess I need to buy one? It says it has "Diaphragms: FKM Fluoroelstomer" whatever that means. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131407897963?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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Regarding a poly pump. Rinse rinse rinse. Also check the diaphragm and seal material. It needs to be SH proof like PVDF (teflon) or Viton. While the poly body can withstand SH for a while, the movable parts will be eaten away rapidly if they are not resistant. If it has EPDM or Butyl diaphragms or seals and balls, it will eat the balls and seals and lose a ton of pressure, or worse blow a diaphragm and flood the air section with SH. Not good. Plan on replacing the fluid chambers after a few years....Gary ran a poly ARO pump which is also a pretty thick body and he ate thru a fluid chamber after a season or so.

Post the specific pump model and I can tell yiu what it has.

Granted you would have definitely made your money on it by then but remember the first law of Roof Cleaning Equipment...

If it will break, it will break in the middle of an expensive time sensitive job.

This is why Kynar and Hastelloy pumps are more expensive and more desirable for roof cleaning use. Those materials can pump hot hydrochloric acid and not care. They are impervious to SH and will last years. With a Poly pump, look for a backup to purchase in a few months and make sure you have a spare set of diaphragms, balls and seals or better yet upgrade to teflon diaphragms and Kynar balls and seals. Or better yet, get a few roofs in, then buy an impervious pump and resell the poly one.

I forgot to ask about rinse rinse rinse. How much is enough? Lets say I have a Titan hose reel and 300' of 5/8.

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I am in agreement with everything Kevin just posted. Quincy and Eaton air compressors are total Beasts, and will serve you well, for a long long time.

There is never such a thing as "too much air", and better too much, then too little.

A 1 inch air operated roof cleaning pump, with over 20 CFM behind it, is a marvelous tool, and should be thegoal of every serious roof cleaner.

I know a guy who does a lot of big commercial roof cleaning jobs. He got a real deal on a Price 2 inch air pump, and got a diesel powered 45 cfm air compressor at a machinery auction over in Orlando.

I was with him once on a Red Roof Inn, and it took that huge hotel roof down in record time. Of course, he uses 3/4 inch hose as well.

Just for kicks, he showed me how far it shot, and it was almost frightening. Even at "only" 125 psi, it shot a stream of chemical a hard to believe distance, because a 2 inch air pump, with 45 CFM, is over 50 GPM.

Always remember, when you restrict Flow, you create pressure!

The Price 2 inch air pump is not made out of Kynar, it is only Poly, but it is made from a solid chunk of VIRGIN Poly, that is nearly an inch thick :)

It has Santoprene insides, and lasted nearly 2 1/2 years, before it was rebuild time. It has never leaked, despite being made out of Poly, and not KYNAR, because it is not fiberglass reinforced Poly, it is VIRGIN Poly.

Big Difference, so stay away from Fiberglass reinforced Poly, cause the SH will attack the fiberglass.

Having a big enough air compressor to USE a 1 or 2 inch air pump can be a wonderful thing, because big 1 to 2 inch air pumps do not sell very well, on the used market. This is because you really need a big ass air compressor to take full advantage of them.

Few have these big air compressors, so the resale value of the big 1 to 2 inch air pumps is quite low.

There are some real deals to be had on these used 1 to 2 inch air pumps, and they literally "last forever", because they are just loafing for our use.

I like that guy. :) I would rather be embarrassed that my equipment was too much than because it was not enough. Interesting that the big pumps have little resale value. Why do they usually sell them at all? Is it because they think the useful life is liability to them since I assume they are using them much more at capacity than we would be. 

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You can either go Flange with gasket, or Tap the Manifold, but you must remove the manifold, or risk plastic shavings getting into your pump.

Flanges are the safest way to do it, and there are heavy plactic flanges to be had, made out of PVC.

Just try and get Teflon or Viton Flange Gaskets, stay away from EDPM if at all possible.

And, you are correct, most of us here are serious veteran roof cleaners who love what we do, and also love helping others, who come here and are serious.

Now, with all that money we were able to save you, you need to be thinking a new air compressor. Sometimes, you are able to find a good used one, but not very often.

Kevin from Peak Of Perfection Roof Cleaning has spent a considerable amount of time comparing air compressors, the big ones.

I would pick his brain, to see what his latest thoughts on them are.

Because I am down in Tampa, where roofs are mostly 1 story, and seldom steep, my needs are different.

The largest Harbor Freight 30 gallon air compressor is more then enough, for us.

In fact, even the smaller harbor freight wheelbarrow compressor with the 7 hp Predator motor is usually enough.

But, when you are up north, and spraying a 10/12 pitch 2 story roof from a ladder on a windy day, you need all the air you can get!

The more CFM, the more flow your big pump will make.

We do have lots of very steep pitched roofs here with more being built and they all are getting closer to GM time every day. :) 

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I will post a link to the Ebay page for the pump below. You will have to scroll down I bit to get all the info like diaphragm etc, but it is a Graco model 1050. I just noticed it said muffler not included. I guess I need to buy one? It says it has "Diaphragms: FKM Fluoroelstomer" whatever that means.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131407897963?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

FKM diaphragms are fine and actually pretty rare. They are A rated with wet SH. It has a polypropylene valve seats....maybe worth changing as that is definitely a weak point as it is under constant pressure and pounding. Switching to PVDF valve seats would be cheap and easy. It has FKM valve balls and Teflon main seals....both good. That pump should last you a good while. If you do see any signs of degradation when yiu do your annual winter tear down, remember, you CAN swap out manifolds and fluid chambers so in the future you can upgrade the pump to Kynar if you wish.,

Rinsing....if you rinse the roof with the pump, you are fine. If not, then let it run with fresh water for at least a minute.

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I am in agreement with everything Kevin just posted. Quincy and Eaton air compressors are total Beasts, and will serve you well, for a long long time.There is never such a thing as "too much air", and better too much, then too little.A 1 inch air operated roof cleaning pump, with over 20 CFM behind it, is a marvelous tool, and should be thegoal of every serious roof cleaner.I know a guy who does a lot of big commercial roof cleaning jobs. He got a real deal on a Price 2 inch air pump, and got a diesel powered 45 cfm air compressor at a machinery auction over in Orlando.I was with him once on a Red Roof Inn, and it took that huge hotel roof down in record time. Of course, he uses 3/4 inch hose as well.Just for kicks, he showed me how far it shot, and it was almost frightening. Even at "only" 125 psi, it shot a stream of chemical a hard to believe distance, because a 2 inch air pump, with 45 CFM, is over 50 GPM.Always remember, when you restrict Flow, you create pressure!The Price 2 inch air pump is not made out of Kynar, it is only Poly, but it is made from a solid chunk of VIRGIN Poly, that is nearly an inch thick :)It has Santoprene insides, and lasted nearly 2 1/2 years, before it was rebuild time. It has never leaked, despite being made out of Poly, and not KYNAR, because it is not fiberglass reinforced Poly, it is VIRGIN Poly.Big Difference, so stay away from Fiberglass reinforced Poly, cause the SH will attack the fiberglass.Having a big enough air compressor to USE a 1 or 2 inch air pump can be a wonderful thing, because big 1 to 2 inch air pumps do not sell very well, on the used market. This is because you really need a big ass air compressor to take full advantage of them.Few have these big air compressors, so the resale value of the big 1 to 2 inch air pumps is quite low.There are some real deals to be had on these used 1 to 2 inch air pumps, and they literally "last forever", because they are just loafing for our use.

When you get into the 2" pumps, things definitely change. Those are big process manufacturing pumps designed to run 24 hours a day and everything is super thick and built like a tank. They run in the multi thousands of dollars new and they can take a hellish amount of air to max out. Everything is so thick it lasts and lasts.

Yeah. I want one.

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I have always liked the Graco Husky pumps, because they are so simple and easy to work on.

I had the pure Kynar version of the 1050 once, it was stolen off one of my trucks one night :(

Some pumps have air valves that are overly complex, and hard to get to quickly. Not the Graco 1050 !

Parts are super easy to get for it, reasonably priced, and changing the air valve is a total piece of cake.

Oh, and screw the muffler, it is not really "needed", and Mufflers can ice up on you sometimes, and stall your pump. These large 1 inch air pumps sound much like they are "Farting" anyways. Unlike the little All Flow 3/8 roof cleaning pumps, that sound like they are working their asses off, going rat a tat tat tat tat, these go psst then psst then psst every 3 to 5 seconds or so. Because those big diaphragms are basically loafing, pump life between rebuilds is greatly increased.

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Here are the flanges you will need, made out of tough schedule 80 PVC.

These are also threaded, so you can simply screw your lines right into them.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#tbm=shop&q=1+inch+pvc++flange+threaded&spd=115918347884660966

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Holy crap! That pump is HUGE!!!!! I like it!!!! WOW!!

Yes, it weighs nearly 25 lbs, and it is large. Not quite as large as what Kevin and some others are using, with their huge 1 inch Hastelloy Pumps, that weigh nearly 65 lbs.

You were wise to listen to us Clayton, and jump when we said to jump. You would be surprised at how many come here, pay money to join to get advice, and then fight us when we try to help them :(

Often, we see these Lost Souls on some Facebook Group, or a forum run by a Vendor, only suggesting the stuff they sell.

I mean, why pay for our advice and guidance, and then not accept it ?

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When you get into the 2" pumps, things definitely change. Those are big process manufacturing pumps designed to run 24 hours a day and everything is super thick and built like a tank. They run in the multi thousands of dollars new and they can take a hellish amount of air to max out. Everything is so thick it lasts and lasts.

Yeah. I want one.

Me 2!

Just as PVDF is another name for Kynar, so is FKM another name for Viton.

And you are correct, it is rare to see it in diaphragms, because it is quite expensive.

It is very very good for SH, just not so good for sodium hydroxide.

Teflon is good for most anything, however, it is very hard, and reduces flow a little, compared to softer materials like EDPM and Viton.

FLUOROELASTOMER CENTRE

The Difference between FPM, FKM and Viton®

The terms FPM, FKM and Viton® very often cause confusion and lead to incorrect interpretations. All of these designations actually stand for one single base material:fluoro rubber.

FPM is the international abbreviation according to DIN/ISO, whereas

FKM nis the short form for the fluoroelastomer category according to the American standard ASTM.

Viton® is the registered trade mark of DuPont Performance Elastomers.

Zrunek uses the designation FPM for all of its fluoro-elastomer materials.

Fluoro Rubber (Viton, FPM, FKM)

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