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House cleaning help!

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Hey Guys I haven't posted in a while but I finally got my Rig together and washed my 2nd house yesterday. After the first side dried though all the dirt and mold was clean but there was a chalky oxidized look over the whole side. What is the best way to approach cleaning the next time I run into this> Is the re a detergent or something because it looked like crap to me.

 

Thanks Joe Mihalchick

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I cleaned it with sodium hypochlorite and arm and hammer oxyclean mixture. I rinsed it with plain water from from pressure washer using the rinse tips from pressure tek.

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The Arm And Hammer was your problem. It is essentially Baking Soda, Oxygen Bleach and a surfactant plus fragrance. Bingo.

First mistake, you mixed Sodium Hypochlorite with Sodium Percarbonate. Sodium Percarbonate is what Oxyclean...AKA Oxygen Bleach....AKA Powdered Hydrogen Peroxide is. Sodium Percarbonate is an SH strength killer since it is reactive with SH combining to create Chlorine Dioxide. The Hydrogen Peroxide also acts as a reduction agent, lowering the dissolved chlorine. While both are powerful oxidizers, they fight one another. Combine that with Baking Soda which is highly basic and you lower the PH of your mix that will weaken it. So you reduce your mix strength with that detergent by reducing available chlorine and reducing the PH. That may be one of the better mix killers out there!

The film? Sodium hydrogen carbonate (I.e. Baking Soda or Sodium Bicarbonate). Might also be some Calcium carbonate in there....it is a common base in laundry detergent. That is why it turned chalky.

Why did it clean? It cleaned because the SH was probably still somewhat weakly active plus Chlorine Dioxide is a weak oxidizer in and of itself (but it happens to be a kick ASS odor neutralizer!) plus just the act of rinsing things will clean. Just be thankful you didn't clean a roof with it or you would have a filmy white mess on your hands!

The fix? I would go back and hit it with a warm water/white vinegar mix and a soft deck brush, followed by lots of immediate rinsing. Or wait to see if anybody else who made the same mistake here posts what they had to do to fix it! You will want to completely clean out your mix tank to prevent that stuff getting on a roof. Hot water then pressure wash the crap out of your mix tank. Don't forget to rinse the bejesus out of your lines.

In the future, stick with either pressure washer house wash or a weak SH and Gain mix....And don't forget to water any plants at the base of the house if you use SH.

Tell your clients you made a mistake but have learned and you WILL fix it. CHALK it up to a learning experience!

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By the way....keep a few jugs of white vinegar on hand. It will take the stink off your hands....but stings like HELL of you have any cuts or scrapes, thus building character and manliness. It also is great for cleaning skylights and windows when you get SH on them...leaves them sparkly clean. It is cheap to boot.

We always hit the skylights with it after a roof cleaning....customers love the fact it makes their house brighter when they can see thru them again.,

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Yeah new to game so need all the help I can get. I will try that tomorrow to get rid of the chalky residue and thanks!!! what mix of H2O to gain to SH should I use percentage wise?

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Oh man i don't know what i just read.  Did you clean the south side of the house on a sunny day?  I use that surfactant for everything i clean with, and never had a problem with it of any sort UNLESS its a hot day and the SUN has already chalked the siding... all the bleach is doing is "loosening it up a bit" doing a half ass job so when it dries it looks blotchy and ugly, you did say it was on ONE side correct?  Re-activate the wall, and brush the siding, the run off should be milky looking, that's the CHALK running off caused from the sun.   

 

I use A&H + oxi clean on shingles, tiles, siding, everything.  it even cleans the windows 9/10 without scrubbing.  just don't let it sit in the hot sun. 

 

chalking is caused by the sun, not by bleach, remember that.  A lot of the time depending on the material quality on the siding, it cannot be helped so be SURE to notice this before you clean.

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also you should be DOWN STREAMING for your house wash mix, through your pressure washer, which is done with a chemical injector with a regulator after your pump.  why? when you use the right orifice tips, and the suction begins through the hose, the bleach is still so fresh before dilution and works its best at its 1% concentration.  try the difference, at 1 gallon of 12% SH to 10-11 gallons water to your soft wash system + surfactant  or downstream 12% @ chemical injector to 1% out the gun.  compare which works better, you'll be suprised.  Also, i have left left over mix sit in my tank for a few weeks, and it doesn't burn up.  Still stays very yellow, just a bit cloudy looking from mixing the detergent.

 

0030 & 0040 orifice for drawing soap... anything smaller in diameter of 0030 will not draw the soap if you are using a gx390 4000 psi @ 4gpm.  it's relevant to other units as well.

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Not sure why it is working for you but Chemically the mix doesn't make sense. Sodium Percarbonate and SH are known to react. SP is used as a reduction agent in the lab. If you add SP to SH, you can watch the yellow disappear from the SH. And Baking soda is a known chalking agent and reduces PH which reduces reactivity. To me that was the logical conclusion. Using an acid to remove the chalk is a known solution as well....thus White Vinegar.

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In the real science world, tests are made before the report is written.  Did you try it for yourself and determine these conclusions, obviously not.  Now, read the M.S.D.S for this product which is what you didn't do and realize that what you said that's in it really isn't.  I've cleaned 100 houses with this surfactant, brushing the south side if chalked, never had an issue.

 

http://www.ahprofessional.com/_downloads/msds/MSDS-097-A&H%20Plus%20OxiClean%20Liquid%20Detergent,%20MAX,%20HE.pdf

 

"sodium carbonate" 0-1%  What's that gonna do?

"PH 8.5 - 9.5" That's not acidic, that's a good range of alkalinity

 

There is no baking soda in it, just a spec of sodium carbonate (washing soda, soda ash and soda crystals).  0-1%

Not all arm and hammer products contain baking soda and speaking of that, i tried 4 lbs of powdered baking soda on a roof in a regular mix with surfactant, it didn't do anything, maybe it helped rinse out the bleach quicker over time, not sure.  But it had no effect in a positive or negative matter.

 

Chalking on siding is caused from the sun, and this mix removes it, because i have done it.  it just needs a bit of elbow grease to get it off, there is nothing out there that can remove chalk without agitation (that i know of).  and i have never chalked the shady side of the house, even after letting it dry. what does that tell you?

 

try it for yourself.  It's the masking aid, rinsing aid, helps the bleach penetrate well, and it takes a while for it to kill the mix (weeks). only one time it did for me because i added 50/50 mix 12% SH to surfactant just to see in a container(took a few days). 

 

I've tried dozens and dozens of surfactants, and the top 3 that works for me is. 1) A&H 2) Joy 3)Gain dish soap 4) t.s.p (not for house mix)

 

Joy just doesn't smell that great, but works magic.

 

Please share self tested information on the r.c.i.a.  otherwise people are just gonna be left confused

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If I am wrong, then I admit I am wrong. That being said, I DO have experience with both Sodium Percarb (buy it in 50 lb bags and use it for cedar with a warm water filled tank) and Baking Soda. I didn't find the MSDS for the A&H so went on the label assuming it was truthful.  Oxyclean, aka SP,  does kill a SH Mix. I've had crews accidentally mix an SH Mix into a SP laden tank and the result was a totally dead mix...it was literally yellowless.

 

Likewise, Baking Soda....which would be logical given who makes the product. Tried some in my SH tank for a house wash and I got a white residue. It wasn't chalk, but a white glaze that we attributed to the Soda.

Never used it again. 

 

I actually USE A&H for my Laundry (the HE version)  so maybe I I will try a bit and see what it does compared to Gain. 

 

Can't use TSP around here...too many watershed areas and the environmental fines if they see it are utterly outrageous. Not sure I like a degreaser on an asphalt roof. 

 

And I still like Vinegar...just NEVER MIX IT WITH CHLORINE OR YOU MIGHT DIE!!!!

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if your arm and hammer isn't the oxi-clean blend, don't bother, won't really work nearly as good.    TSP makes certain colored asphalt roofs shine, gray roofs, blue... and for a LONG time.  just an expensive additive to the mix.  i would never try baking soda for the house wash LOL, that's just common sense. 

 

Also that pre mixed TSP is sooo much nicer then mixing the powdered type, totally worth the extra dollar too for it.  and actually i notice a better difference with the pre-mixed tsp, beats me.

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If I am wrong, then I admit I am wrong. That being said, I DO have experience with both Sodium Percarb (buy it in 50 lb bags and use it for cedar with a warm water filled tank) and Baking Soda. I didn't find the MSDS for the A&H so went on the label assuming it was truthful.  Oxyclean, aka SP,  does kill a SH Mix. I've had crews accidentally mix an SH Mix into a SP laden tank and the result was a totally dead mix...it was literally yellowless.

 

Likewise, Baking Soda....which would be logical given who makes the product. Tried some in my SH tank for a house wash and I got a white residue. It wasn't chalk, but a white glaze that we attributed to the Soda.

Never used it again. 

 

I actually USE A&H for my Laundry (the HE version)  so maybe I I will try a bit and see what it does compared to Gain. 

 

Can't use TSP around here...too many watershed areas and the environmental fines if they see it are utterly outrageous. Not sure I like a degreaser on an asphalt roof. 

 

And I still like Vinegar...just NEVER MIX IT WITH CHLORINE OR YOU MIGHT DIE!!!!

TSP is actually suggested by ARMA, to use to clean roofs with!

 

Algae Discoloration of Roofs
 

Explains the origin and effects of algae growth on roofing. Suggests use of cleaning techniques for temporary lightening.

 

For many years, roof discoloration caused by algae has been observed throughout the United States and Canada. This is commonly referred to as “fungus growth.” The discoloration usually has a brown to black appearance, and may be mistaken for soot, dirt, moss, or tree droppings.

The primary species of algae being observed is Gloeocapsa Magma. This type of algae is contained in and transported through the air, and tends to collect and grow upon roofing structures. Natural pigments produced by this algae may cause a white or light colored roof to gradually turn dark brown or black. The algae discolorations should not be confused with moss or tree droppings, which typically produce only localized discolorations.

This type of roof discoloration has been most widespread in the Gulf States and along the Northwest and Eastern Seaboards. It is not, however, confined to only these regions. Algae growth occurs to varying degrees in all regions of the country, especially those subjected to warm, humid conditions. It should be noted that almost all types of roofing systems are susceptible to algae discoloration. It is, of course, most readily visible upon white or pastel roofs, while it is not so visible upon darker shades of roofing.

Algae discolorations are difficult to remove from roofing surfaces, but may be lightened by applying a solution of chlorine bleach, trisodium phosphate, and water. Solutions for these ingredients may vary between shingle manufacturers and depend on the amount of discoloration. Solutions range from one cup TSP, one gallon bleach and five gallons of water, to one cup TSP and 2.5 gallons each of bleach and water.

First, gently disperse this solution on the roofing surface. Use normal precautions for handling bleach. Be sure to apply it carefully to avoid damage to other parts of the building and its surrounding landscape. Avoid scrubbing the surface, as this friction may loosen and remove granules. If possible, always work from a ladder and/or walkboards to avoid direct contact with the roof surface. Observe all possible safety precautions when working on or near the roof. Finally, rinse the solution from the roof by gently spraying the surface with water. Be warned that this solution application and rinse process will make the roof surface slippery and potentially hazardous to walk on during treatment.

The effectiveness of such cleaning techniques are only temporary, and discoloration will likely recur. However, several types of algae resistant roofing products have been developed, and are now commercially available. These asphalt roofing products are specifically designed to inhibit algae growth for extended periods of time.

Caution!

High pressure washing systems for algae removal should not be used

Residential Roofing

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Am I misunderstanding this or are you saying that you are an "oxy" roof cleaner hanging out on an SH/ARMA/Applesause forum?

 

uhhh, i don't know if you're joking or not but if you read the comments you would know.

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TSP is actually suggested by ARMA, to use to clean roofs with!

 

Yeah....problem is, it is a phosphate bearing cleaner. Phosphates are banned in many areas, including ours because they purportedly cause big algae blooms in the lakes. Hmmm....wait a minute, phosphates cause algae blooms....GM is an Algae...it is a Conspiracy Man!

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if your arm and hammer isn't the oxi-clean blend, don't bother, won't really work nearly as good.    TSP makes certain colored asphalt roofs shine, gray roofs, blue... and for a LONG time.  just an expensive additive to the mix.  i would never try baking soda for the house wash LOL, that's just common sense. 

 

Also that pre mixed TSP is sooo much nicer then mixing the powdered type, totally worth the extra dollar too for it.  and actually i notice a better difference with the pre-mixed tsp, beats me.

I looked...lit is not, will pick some up up to try when I make a Walmart run for Gain. And can't use TSP here.

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Yeah....problem is, it is a phosphate bearing cleaner. Phosphates are banned in many areas, including ours because they purportedly cause big algae blooms in the lakes. Hmmm....wait a minute, phosphates cause algae blooms....GM is an Algae...it is a Conspiracy Man!

TSP is a phosphate, and it is also a well known nitrogen fertilizer!

I have thought exactly the same thing, why clean a roof using TSP, when you may be fertilizing the Algae, maybe causing it to grow back on the roof even faster.

But, that's not the case. The SH kills the algae, and all the TSP is long gone, by the time the new algae grows back.

 

I am sort of a "tree hugger" type, and I agree the widespread of phosphates has and will cause algae blooms that will choke the lakes and streams.

However, the occasional use of TSP by a roof cleaner here and there will only result in a cleaner roof.

TSP is not absolutely essential to clean a roof, other surfactants/soaps may be used.

In fact, all that is really needed to clean a roof is water and SH alone!

 

However, the addition of a surfactant/soap and or TSP makes for a better looking final product.

TSP is almost w/o equal as far as a cleaning additive for a roof cleaning mix goes.

Yes, it is a bitch to use, yes, there are environmental concerns, blah blah blah.

 

But when I want the best looking roof cleaning I can give a customer, guess what I reach for ?

TSP

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if your arm and hammer isn't the oxi-clean blend, don't bother, won't really work nearly as good.    TSP makes certain colored asphalt roofs shine, gray roofs, blue... and for a LONG time.  just an expensive additive to the mix.  i would never try baking soda for the house wash LOL, that's just common sense. 

 

Also that pre mixed TSP is sooo much nicer then mixing the powdered type, totally worth the extra dollar too for it.  and actually i notice a better difference with the pre-mixed tsp, beats me.

Rich, are you sure the premixed TSP is really TSP ?

Can you provide a link to what you are talking about ?

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I have never seen this, in the US.

 

Check the home depots in the states? i'm sure they should carry it there.  $10.00 for 3.78 liters here... i only add 1 to a 50 gallon mix only if the circumstances need it, which is never.  If i clean a driveway with roof mix, i add tsp, beats power washing.  Over oil stains on the driveway, i buff in the solution with a stiff nylon brush and virtually removes the stain. 

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Kevin, you're correct here,..chemically his mix is WRONG!  He may be getting the work done,..but not doing it in a proper manner. Mixing Sodium Percarbonate with SH is counter productive,..PERIOD!

I'm wondering about the SP he's claiming to be in his mix,..anytime I've ever mixed the two together there was a volcano of foam from the reaction. So,..I think if it's not "volcanoing",..there's a VERY small amount of SP in the mix,..and isn't adding any quality to the mix. The Sodium Carbonate is a bigger PITA than it's worth,..hard to mix,.and will leave a very white film on anything it's not rinsed from thoroughly. Of the surfactants he mentions as his top picks,..only the Joy and Gain are worth while,..but there are better choices for house washing.

*Strong oxidizers used improperly will also cause chalkiness on siding,..not just the Sun. The only reason his mix is "removing" the oxidation is simply because he's scrubbing it off,...heck you can do that with water if you scrub hard enough. Using a SOLVENT like Purple Power is waaaay better than the mix he uses on oxidation. 

**In another thread, Rich mentions Sodium Bicarbonate neutralizing Sodium Hypochlorite,witch is also incorrect.

Jeff

 

 

 

Edited by Jeff

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Lol.  Baking soda doesn't neutralize SH (I actually made that post when I was looking into baking soda as an additive and yeah that is incorrect - spoke too soon).  They work better together.  I've been using A&H for a long time now and i have never had a problem with it for roof and exterior cleaning.  Jeff before you start making assumptions why don't you try these methods for yourself.  I have never chaulked the siding of any exterior i've cleaned before lol.  As for oxidization there are products we've used the you simply spray on and it disappears but we don't so that as a service.  It is impossible to scrub oxidization off a gutter (or any aluminum surface) with just a brush and water so have fun with that.   As for mixing,I just pour the A&H in the mix and do nothing else, it's not a powder lol.  Gain is annoying because of how badly it suds up when you rinse a roof.  We rinse virtually all of ours because of how much moss we have up here.  Joy reeks like a pack of skunks,  so we stick with what we know works best.

There is no sodium percarbonate in the A&H either lol.  And for sodium carbonate, liking sodium bicarbonate, they both work well in enhancing SH.  If you add to much to your mix, all it does is leaves an annoying residue on windows that can be removed with ease with a water fed pole.  otherwise it's no sweat.

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