Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted January 30, 2014 Hi everyone, As some of you will know I'm assembling my very first roof cleaning system here in the UK. I'm not onto sourcing a deep cycle marine battery can anyone recommend a decent one or are they all much of a muchness? I mate of mine has a few 12v car batteries that he longer needs that would get me started but will the last long? Any help, assistance, advice is always appreciated. Thanks in advance Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Advantage Roof Cleaning Report post Posted January 30, 2014 Hey Jonathan, I can't say how long a car battery will last between charges. But remember a battery in a car is constantly being recharged by the alternator while in use. However a boat (marine) battery is not necessarily being recharged while in use. You certainly don't want to be out on a job when your pump suddenly stops working due to a dead battery. And it may be a hassle to recharge a car battery every night. My deep cycle marine battery lasts at least a few days without requiring a charge. In short I recommend going with a deep cycle marine battery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyw Report post Posted January 30, 2014 Hi everyone, As some of you will know I'm assembling my very first roof cleaning system here in the UK. I'm not onto sourcing a deep cycle marine battery can anyone recommend a decent one or are they all much of a muchness? I mate of mine has a few 12v car batteries that he longer needs that would get me started but will the last long? Any help, assistance, advice is always appreciated. Thanks in advance Jonathan Johathan; If your mate has several batteries, hook them all together for 3 times the AMP hours. You can also wire them into your charging system on your truck. That way they will get recharged between jobs. I did this for 2.5 years and NEVER had a problem. If in doubt, just ask your mechanic. 1 Roof Cleaning Virginia reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks Guys, buying the marine battery isn't a problem it's just that I thought to get started do I really need one or is this something that can be added after I've been up and running for a few months. I'll check with my mechanic friend and see what he says. Regards Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted January 31, 2014 Car batteries....Don't do it. It *can* work...,but it is far from ideal. Yes you really do want a deep cycle battery...or two...setup. Having the proper power setup is as important as the pump if you are going electric. The car batteries are not designed for the type of application you are doing, and not only will the battery likely burn out, but you are likely to significantly shorten the pump life too as the available amperage drops making the pump work harder and run hotter. Why big deep cycles? Car batteries are designed to provide big bursts of amperage for short periods of time (starting the car) and small amounts of amperage for longer periods of time (running the radio or lights). Deep cycle batteries are designed to provide large amounts of amperage for long periods of time. Pumps draw large amounts of amperage over long periods of time. If you are pumping fluidthru 200' of hose up a 3 story building' the pump is going to be working hard and it will draw a LOT of amperage for up to several hours. Thus you need that capacity. Battery Size wise...Big. The bigger the better. Bigger lasts longer....run time and longevity wise. And BIG WIRE. We finally went to massive 4/0 leads and it made a tremendous difference to the happiness of our pump. You could hear and feel the difference. Don't forget to put dielectric grease on all the fittings, and maintain your connections regularly...as in monthly. They WILL corrode due to the chlorine and that corrosion will increase resistance and burn the pump out sooner. Put a battery disconnect on the battery...when the pump relay goes bad....and at some point it WILL go bad, in the middle of a job...it allows you to quickly turn off the pump. I've finished that last 1/8 of a roof before with a failed relay by standing next to the truck and flipping the disconnect on and off as the top man needed. Fix the relay at the shop, not in the customer's driveway. Learn to listen to the sound of your pump...it will let you know when it is unhappy. Big deep cycle marine batteries and leads finally made for much happier pumps that lasted longer and ran better on my case. Sealed Marine Gel Cells are usually better as they typically maintain the amperage for a greater percentage of the battery rating and they last longer, but they are more spendy. If you start with wet lead acid, make a point of checking the fluids regularly. And....as part of your necessities, have a set of jumper cables long enough to reach the pump battery from your truck battery. If you start to run low or have a battery fail...usually 3/4 the way thru the job...you can run the jumpers, start the truck and have enough power to finish the job. It is not ideal, but once or twice won't hurt. Also invest in a *good* deep cycle charger...one designed for deep cycle batteries. In short (HA!), don't skimp on the power system. It can cause you no end of grief if you do. Do it once, do it right and buy spares and redundancy (pumps, connectors, relays, pressure switches, nozzles, quick connects, valves, tools, and a second battery) as soon as possible. The less time you are dicking around fixing things, the more time you are out cleaning roofs and making money. 1 Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted January 31, 2014 Hi everyone, As some of you will know I'm assembling my very first roof cleaning system here in the UK. I'm not onto sourcing a deep cycle marine battery can anyone recommend a decent one or are they all much of a muchness? I mate of mine has a few 12v car batteries that he longer needs that would get me started but will the last long? Any help, assistance, advice is always appreciated. Thanks in advance Jonathan A BIG BIG Mistake with any battery is running too SMALL wires, to your 12 volt roof cleaning pump! Keep the power wires as short as possible, and only use large diameter wires. 1 PeakOfPerfection reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted January 31, 2014 Wow thanks guys for the informative replies. I'll defo buy a marine deep cycle battery, any recommendation on who makes a decent one? Many thanks again for all your help it really is appreciated. Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted January 31, 2014 Also what sort of AH will I be looking for? Thanks Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted February 1, 2014 A BIG BIG Mistake with any battery is running too SMALL wires, to your 12 volt roof cleaning pump! Keep the power wires as short as possible, and only use large diameter wires. Not large diameter... HUGE! 4/0 is a good size. Still somewhat flexible but massive enough to not give much voltage drop even with two pumps. Shortening those puny little 12 ga leads Delavan supplies on the Fatboy isn't a bad idea either. Wish they would put some barely adequate 8 ga leads on them instead of the puny 12 ga. As for what brand battery...you likely have different brands across the pond. Find a good battery specialist and pick their brain. Usually the marine supply battery guys are a good resource. Be prepared...big marine deep cycles are HEAVY and a bit spendy. Worth it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 1, 2014 Here's a website in the UK selling deep cycle marine batteries, do any of these stand out as a good brand/battery>? Thanks again Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted February 1, 2014 Here's a website in the UK selling deep cycle marine batteries, do any of these stand out as a good brand/battery>? Thanks again Jonathan Sorry...no link there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 1, 2014 Opps the demons of drink...... http://www.barden-uk.com/marine-and-leisure-batteries-overview.html Regards Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted February 1, 2014 I would call them, tell them what your use and expected operation time is and let them give you advice. Not sure what pump you are going to use but you will want to give them the amperage draw. As an example, the Delavan Fat Boy 2...by far the most popular roof cleaning pump here in the States, draws 17 Amps at 60 PSI...a pretty standard setting. Find your pump mfg website and it should give you the amperage draw of whichever pump you intend to use. Remember that all deep cycle batteries are not the same. You can't just take the Amp Hour rating when looking at a constant draw. A better designed battery will allow you to run deeper into the reserve without losing full power to your pump. A cheaper battery will have the same amp hour rating, but run a pump all day and it will lose the ability to deliver full power output far faster than a well designed cell, heating up your pump. Most batteries will only deliver full power for 40-50% of their rating. A bigger battery reaches that point later as does a better designed battery. The better fed your roof pump is with good quality power, the longer it will last. Once the power does start to drop, your pump will slow down, work harder and heat up. That kills pumps. It may be better to spend another £100 on a battery if it means you won't need to replace a £200 pump nearly as often and you have enough reserve to get one more job in for the day. Or...forget the whole thing and go with an air pump setup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 1, 2014 Thanks again, this is the pump I went for http://www.allpumpsdirect.co.uk/Flojet-Pentaflex-Diaphragm-Pump-R7300142A-5.5-Bar-26.5-Lpm-12V All the battery suppliers are closed today so I'll need to speak to them on Monday, would you suggest adding a fan to the aluminium case I have to keep the fan cool (air temps in the UK don't get as hot as they do in the US or very rarely. Thanks Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted February 2, 2014 If your pump is in the aluminum case...yes I would add a fan...heat kills pumps. Remember...if you want to remove heat, you need to replace hot air with cool...putting a fan in an enclosed box can circulate hot air. If you are going to draw air in, you will draw CL gas in...corroding things anyways. Make your intake as far away from the tank as possible. Remember to seal all the fan connectors with shrink wrap. The chlorine is murder on those tiny little wires and they will get brittle...shutting down your fan on the hottest day of the year and frying your pump. Ask me how I know this. Most of the experienced guys I see with electric pump rigs have the pumps covered...but not enclosed. Having done the enclosed pump thing, I now know why. An enclosed mounted pump makes it a pain in the derrier if you need to switch out a pressure switch or the entire pump...and you will need to switch out a pressure switch or a relay...or four...in a season. Furthermore, you might want to Google Aluminum and Chlorine. There is a reason you see a lot of Stainless steel on the better rigs. If you own it and plan to stick with Aluminum, look into a corrosion resistant coating. My new truck has an aluminum flatbed and rack...it is all getting coated with bed liner. If you plan to put the BATTERY in the case...I would rethink it. There is a reason most battery boxes are made from NON conductive materials. One slip up with a cable and you can have an interesting day. Remember too...batteries outgas corrosive acids. Good idea to have a vented enclosure for the battery...makes the wiring neater...just make it non conductive. If you already own the box and are too far in to change now...I would line it with rubber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 2, 2014 Many thanks again for the informative reply (sorry I don't know your name) Mr PeakOfPerfection. I'm trying to replicate the Powerwash.com soft wash in a box system. The problem I've found is lack of information on how to build a system until I came on here. To my knowledge no one in the UK is using these soft wash system, they use pressure washers. I looked into having one of the Powerwash.com single tank systems sent over to the UK but the shipping and import tax plus the cost of the system was too high so I'm building my own system. I have a pressure washing business and wanted to add a roof cleaning system as I see it being a winner over here with our wet weather. So far I have the pump, PVC hoses, 3 way valve, master water nozzle on its way from the US and tank. I've ordered the aluminium box which I should have in 2 weeks. This is my first system and while I appreciated it won't be the most sophisticated in the world it'll be a start and if I can get a year or so out of it and things take off like I hope they will then I can invest in a bigger better air system. Like I said I've found info hard to come by and tried to make what I thought/think is a good enough entry level system. I didn't want to spend a fortune on a system that I might not get the use out of if things don't take off. Like I said I really appreciated the help and advice here, I have lots of questions but I'll ask them as and when I move the system along once I buy all the bits I need. Thanks again Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyw Report post Posted February 2, 2014 Glad to see you have the water nozzle in transit. I'll personally thank Barry. Gary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 TBH I've never heard anything from Barry, I ordered it from his eBay page.... But thanks for the offer Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Advantage Roof Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 My deep cell battery is in a standard plasic box with a toggle switch. My pump is in a separate but identical plastic box with cooling fan. I like the setup and haven't had any issues with it. I do like the idea to increase the wire guage to reduce the voltage drop. Thanks for the tip! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 Dave, do you have any photos of your setup you could post up here please? Thanks in advance Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Advantage Roof Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 Let me se what I can dig up Jonathan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 Many thanks Dave. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Advantage Roof Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 Jonathan, I just grabbed a screen shot of my setup. You will see two identical plastic boxes. One contains the battery. If you look closely at the lower left image you will see the pump in the other box with a cooling fan mounted above it. You will also see the the toggle switch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 3, 2014 Much appreciated Dave. Thanks Jonathan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorkshire Driveway Cleaning Report post Posted February 5, 2014 So I've spoke to a few different companies who sell deep cycle batteries here in the UK and all weren't much good and kept asking me which battery I wanted. I said I was wanting their advice but they didn't really get the whole roof cleaning thing and just asked what battery I wanted. So as it stands I know a little bit more through my own research, I now know that gel sealed batteries are expensive over wet sealed batteries. The battery brands I can see over here are Numax, Lucas, Trojan (expensive), and Varta. I've tried to find out what my 12v pump amperage rate is and in the brochure it says 13.5 amps@10psi (the pump has a max of 80psi). One of the guys I spoke to said that I'd be better off buying a few wet sealed batteries for the same price as a gel sealed battery, views on that one? If anyone can offer further advice on this I'd be most grateful. My pump is as follows: Flojet R7000 Pentaflex 7.0 Model R7300142 12v 7gpm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites