Improving The Fat Boy Roof Cleaning Pump !

65 posts in this topic

Posted

I understand that Chris but why would it make a difference since the chemicals are not interacting with the controller only the pump?

I guess I thought the chems ran through the controller, how else will it control pressure and flow ?

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Posted

Chris the controller has four wires, two go to the battery and two to the pump. Everything is controlled electronically. Some of the newer ones can give the voltage of the battery and now there are ones that can tell the purity (ppm) and temperature of the water. They can even turn on gas heaters when the water drops below a preset temperature.

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Posted

Well here is my latest experiment.  It is a hot water tank expansion tank.  Basically an accumulator tank like waxman mentioned in his post.  It holds 2 gallons instead of 1 ltr.  I pressureized it to 50 lbs and installed it just like the accumulator.  I ran about 100 gallons of water through it  with different tips from 40's to 4's with great recycle times.  The only downfall that I can see is that it is metal instead of plastic.  I figure that a good rinse after every use should get me a year.  If so I would be happy.  $39.00 at Lowes.

7388889.jpg

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Posted

Well here is my latest experiment.  It is a hot water tank expansion tank.  Basically an accumulator tank like waxman mentioned in his post.  It holds 2 gallons instead of 1 ltr.  I pressureized it to 50 lbs and installed it just like the accumulator.  I ran about 100 gallons of water through it  with different tips from 40's to 4's with great recycle times.  The only downfall that I can see is that it is metal instead of plastic.  I figure that a good rinse after every use should get me a year.  If so I would be happy.  $39.00 at Lowes.

7388889.jpg

It is clever, and dangerous, at the same time! I am of the opinion the pressurized roof  cleaning chemicals may eat right through it, quick.

How thick is the metal ?

Be sure and wear eye protection at all times around it, ok ?

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Posted

It is clever, and dangerous, at the same time! I am of the opinion the pressurized roof  cleaning chemicals may eat right through it, quick.

How thick is the metal ?

Be sure and wear eye protection at all times around it, ok ?

You are so right.  If it works well, (in the tests it was great)  they make a stainless model that I may invest in.  In the mean time, I plan on rinsing and Inspecting it after every use.  It is rated at 150 psi.  I have it preloaded at 50 psi.  I'm hoping that if there is a failure, it will be of the pin hole type and not a catastrophic type.  I may even make a blanket or other type of enclosure to put over it while in use.  Still a work in progress.

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Posted

You are so right.  If it works well, (in the tests it was great)  they make a stainless model that I may invest in.  In the mean time, I plan on rinsing and Inspecting it after every use.  It is rated at 150 psi.  I have it preloaded at 50 psi.  I'm hoping that if there is a failure, it will be of the pin hole type and not a catastrophic type.  I may even make a blanket or other type of enclosure to put over it while in use.  Still a work in progress.

That's the spirit! No one can say for sure how long it will last, until you try it!

Just be safe AL, I have grown to like you buddy!

When it blows (and it will), who knows what will happen ?

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Posted

I think the first thing that will go with it will be the bladder. I think they are rubber, Not sure tho. 

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Posted

This particular one is butyl.  According to this chem resistance chart  (http://www.mossrubber.com/pdfs/Chem_Res.pdf) it is rated good for resistance to SSH.  If the bladder goes first, I think that would be the best thing.  I check the pressure every time out, and if the bladder goes, liquid will come out of the air valve so I will know as soon as it goes..  Chris mentioned PVC for a tank and I am currently looking into building one from scratch out of sched 80 pvc.  Should be a fun project.

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Posted

This particular one is butyl.  According to this chem resistance chart  (http://www.mossrubber.com/pdfs/Chem_Res.pdf) it is rated good for resistance to SSH.  If the bladder goes first, I think that would be the best thing.  I check the pressure every time out, and if the bladder goes, liquid will come out of the air valve so I will know as soon as it goes..  Chris mentioned PVC for a tank and I am currently looking into building one from scratch out of sched 80 pvc.  Should be a fun project.

What one has a Butyl Bladder AL, the stainless one ?

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Posted

  •  

    What one has a Butyl Bladder AL, the stainless one ?

     

    Actually both do. I think they use Butyl because it doesn't leave a taste in the drinking water.  I used the blue one on a job yesterday and it worked flawlessly.  Put about 20 gallons of fresh water through it after we were done.  cycled it about 10 times while I was rinsing it.  Should be nice and clean.  

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Posted

 

  •  

     

    Actually both do. I think they use Butyl because it doesn't leave a taste in the drinking water.  I used the blue one on a job yesterday and it worked flawlessly.  Put about 20 gallons of fresh water through it after we were done.  cycled it about 10 times while I was rinsing it.  Should be nice and clean.  

 

LOL, I think you are "on to something" with the blue one!~

I would use it, until the "bladder bleeds", then shitcan it.

Hell, for the money, who cares if you toss it ?

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Posted

Wow.. Whoever said Roof Cleaners were a bunch of dummies? You guys all sound like you have friggin degrees in engineering, makes me realize how much I don't know.. What are the best tips to run on the Fatboy to lower the runoff issue? Mine has the accumulator as well. These posts are all pretty old but did Bob at Pressure Tec ever weigh in?  

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Posted

Wow.. Whoever said Roof Cleaners were a bunch of dummies? You guys all sound like you have friggin degrees in engineering, makes me realize how much I don't know.. What are the best tips to run on the Fatboy to lower the runoff issue? Mine has the accumulator as well. These posts are all pretty old but did Bob at Pressure Tec ever weigh in?  

I pretty much abandoned 12 volt pumps for roof cleaning years ago, and never looked back.

Yes, they work well for quite a few roof cleaners, just not for us.

We consider it a Bad Day if we only clean 2 or 3 roofs! 

Only the air pumps hold up for us.

 

But, because this is the roof cleaning institute, I still have an interest in 12 volt roof cleaning pumps like the Delavan Fat Boy.

I like Al's homebrew accumulator, and I still think maybe we can reduce flow in a Fat Boy, if we were able to adjust the amount of voltage/current it gets somehow.

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Posted

Hey Hickey, what kind of Irish import are you bringing in? Love to see a picture of it!!

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Posted

Well here is my latest experiment.  It is a hot water tank expansion tank.  Basically an accumulator tank like waxman mentioned in his post.  It holds 2 gallons instead of 1 ltr.  I pressureized it to 50 lbs and installed it just like the accumulator.  I ran about 100 gallons of water through it  with different tips from 40's to 4's with great recycle times.  The only downfall that I can see is that it is metal instead of plastic.  I figure that a good rinse after every use should get me a year.  If so I would be happy.  $39.00 at Lowes.

7388889.jpg

 

Al,

 

I'm glad you took the ball and ran with it. Back when I posted this I couldn't remember where I saw it and and still can't remember. Old age I guess.

 

Hank(waxman)

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Posted

Al,

 

I'm glad you took the ball and ran with it. Back when I posted this I couldn't remember where I saw it and and still can't remember. Old age I guess.

 

Hank(waxman)

This is how we make things better for every roof cleaner, by experimentation. 

Check this out http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-50V-40A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-12V-24V-48V-2000W-MAX-1-/281148521177?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 !

It is a 12 volt DC Motor Speed Control! 

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Posted

Update - So far so good.  Hasn't blown up yet and I can use small nozzles without excessive recycling.

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Posted

Air pumps FTW!

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This particular one is butyl.  According to this chem resistance chart  (http://www.mossrubber.com/pdfs/Chem_Res.pdf) it is rated good for resistance to SSH.  If the bladder goes first, I think that would be the best thing.  I check the pressure every time out, and if the bladder goes, liquid will come out of the air valve so I will know as soon as it goes..  Chris mentioned PVC for a tank and I am currently looking into building one from scratch out of sched 80 pvc.  Should be a fun project.

AL, how did that accumulator hold up?  I am building my rig with a FB2 new one with a demand switch on it and want to put an accumlator on it.  Was looking at the PVC option you mentioned as well.  I was looking at a 6" Sch 80 pipe about 2' long.

any updates would be GREAT

THAnks

Joe

 

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Posted

Great info

Troy Howell likes this

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Posted

I use the accumulator from PressureTek and it works quite well. In my five years of roof cleaning, I've replaced it once. I keep it pressurized to 80-100 psi for my 100 psi FB pump. As a result the pump cycles very little.

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Posted

I just ordered an accumulator to try out.

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Posted

Some have had luck with the accumulators, and some have not been as lucky. The membranes are made from EDPM, and have leaked all over for some, when they failed. If using an accumulator, be sure and rinse the whole system out with lots of fresh water, after every use. 

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Posted

the "accumulator tank" is just a bladder tank the job of the tank is NOT to have a lot of water in it.  The bladder is to separate the air from the water.  As you put water in the tank it pushes the bladder up (the bladder expands) and compresses the air above it. Water does not compress.  The whole reason you have a tank is so the pressure valve has as large cushion of air for expansion as it can before turning the pump on and off.  The air chamber also helps reduce water hammering.  The pressure from the air in the bladder is now what pushes your water through the line while the pump is off, until it gets so low that it forces the pump to turn on.  Look at a well out side it does not matter if it is a bladder tank or a galvanized tank with no bladder (they have a weeping valve to introduce air and a air release valve on the side to release air)  If the tanks are lets say "80 Gallon Tanks) that does not mean they hold 80 gallons of water) in reality they only hold about half that amount, the rest of the tank is filled with compressed air.

The air pressure in the tank (checked by the air valve on top) should be matched to your pressure switch and has nothing to do with GPM.  So in this case it should only be 10 to 15 pounds just like the smaller tank ( the little plastic accumulator tank) was. This is because the pressure switch on the pump is set to go on when the pressure gets down to that psi.   If you have more air psi than that in the top of the bladder, then the pressure switch thinks it is at a higher pressure and shuts the pump off sooner because it thinks the tank has built up the pressure when in reality you have put to much air in there. To much air/psi in the top part of the tank defeats the whole purpose of having a larger tank.  Remember ONLY check the air valve for the propper pressure whit the pump shut off and the pressure removed from the water line (Drain the line to and from the tank) so you don't get a false reading.  So Remember the water rising from the bottom of the tank pushes the baldder up causing the air on top of the bladder to compress the trapped air and that is the reading the pressure switch relies on.

So the larger the tank you can get the more water it will hold. The little one may hold 3 cups, the blue one shown may hold a gallon, the 20 gallon tanks may hold 10-12 gallons, the 80 gallon tanks may hold 35-40 gallons,  It all depends on how much air is stored/compressed and that is controlled by the settings on the pressure switch.

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