PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 1, 2014 I am in the process of bidding out the cleaning on a 68,000 Square ft storage complex with 25+ year old metal roofs. I have the advantage over the other guys in that the owner do NOT want any sort of pressure washing done on them...so it will be a chem only deal. Problem is...the roofs haven't been cleaned in 25+ years and they are absolutely CAKED with lichen on every possible surface. I stopped by and hit a test patch today with some 30% mix left from the job earlier in the day and while it did make a difference...not nearly the difference I would like. Even after a scrub down with a soft deck brush, there was still a layer of this cr@p on the metal. Told the owner that I would adjust the mix and be back for another test patch. I am thinking dwell time perhaps? Ammonyx Mo perhaps? Or some truck wash. I do plan to use Sodium Metasilicate in the rinse water to stop corrosion. I will have to rent a 500 Gal water trailer since there is one and only one water spigot. The guys are liking me because I am letting them know that it won't need to be repainted...which is true, there was no rust underneath once I got one small section scrubbed down...but I want this CLEAN since these guys are well connected and it could result in some nice commercial projects. Suggestions for chems/mix would be greatly appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 I am in the process of bidding out the cleaning on a 68,000 Square ft storage complex with 25+ year old metal roofs. I have the advantage over the other guys in that the owner do NOT want any sort of pressure washing done on them...so it will be a chem only deal. Problem is...the roofs haven't been cleaned in 25+ years and they are absolutely CAKED with lichen on every possible surface. I stopped by and hit a test patch today with some 30% mix left from the job earlier in the day and while it did make a difference...not nearly the difference I would like. Even after a scrub down with a soft deck brush, there was still a layer of this cr@p on the metal. Told the owner that I would adjust the mix and be back for another test patch. I am thinking dwell time perhaps? Ammonyx Mo perhaps? Or some truck wash. I do plan to use Sodium Metasilicate in the rinse water to stop corrosion. I will have to rent a 500 Gal water trailer since there is one and only one water spigot. The guys are liking me because I am letting them know that it won't need to be repainted...which is true, there was no rust underneath once I got one small section scrubbed down...but I want this CLEAN since these guys are well connected and it could result in some nice commercial projects. Suggestions for chems/mix would be greatly appreciated. There are better things to kill Lichens then our roof cleaning mix! Here is how the Brits do it http://www.roofclean.co.uk/ Or this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 1, 2014 Hmmm...if they are using a Quat...I stock that in large quantities for my Mold Remediation company. I could try spraying a bit of Quat on there and see what happens. Good thing is....it is cheap. If I could get away with spraying a Quat with some surfactant instead of SH, then the materials cost just went WAY down! As for the second video....those guys are roofers. Have to be since they obviously want to replace that roof soon. YIKES! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sussex County Roof Cleaning Report post Posted April 1, 2014 Try a stronger mix Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ksroofs Report post Posted April 1, 2014 im with him^ try a stronger mix.. and the moss absorbs alot of mix.. spray it 2 times or until the moss is all white.. Let is sit as long as you need it to without drying out.. then use an extension brush or just try to rinse it after that.. I have never had too much problem when i bump up the mix and let it sit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 1, 2014 Hmmm. You know what....that second video got me thinking. While that pavement sweeper idea is abhorrent, particularly on asphalt shingle roofs....the idea of a drum style buffer got me thinking. What about a pneumatic aircraft drum buffer? It will take that crap layer off, polish and restore the finish. Perhaps metal roof polishing could be a thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 1, 2014 im with him^ try a stronger mix.. and the moss absorbs alot of mix.. spray it 2 times or until the moss is all white.. Let is sit as long as you need it to without drying out.. then use an extension brush or just try to rinse it after that.. I have never had too much problem when i bump up the mix and let it sit Yeah....this isn't moss. It is a near solid layer of tiny lichen on a corrugated metal roof. I am in Washington state....trust me, I deal with a LOT of moss...just finished a mossy, lichen filled asphalt roof before this one. No...this is a solid layer of tiny lichen that is pretty well bonded to the surface. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 Yeah....this isn't moss. It is a near solid layer of tiny lichen on a corrugated metal roof. I am in Washington state....trust me, I deal with a LOT of moss...just finished a mossy, lichen filled asphalt roof before this one. No...this is a solid layer of tiny lichen that is pretty well bonded to the surface. Hmmm...if they are using a Quat...I stock that in large quantities for my Mold Remediation company. I could try spraying a bit of Quat on there and see what happens. Good thing is....it is cheap. If I could get away with spraying a Quat with some surfactant instead of SH, then the materials cost just went WAY down! As for the second video....those guys are roofers. Have to be since they obviously want to replace that roof soon. YIKES! Try a stronger mix im with him^ try a stronger mix.. and the moss absorbs alot of mix.. spray it 2 times or until the moss is all white.. Let is sit as long as you need it to without drying out.. then use an extension brush or just try to rinse it after that.. I have never had too much problem when i bump up the mix and let it sit Hmmm. You know what....that second video got me thinking. While that pavement sweeper idea is abhorrent, particularly on asphalt shingle roofs....the idea of a drum style buffer got me thinking. What about a pneumatic aircraft drum buffer? It will take that crap layer off, polish and restore the finish. Perhaps metal roof polishing could be a thing? Me thinks a Quat with a sticky surfactant would be a more potent "witches brew" to best kill the Moss/Lichens. I also wonder if a floor polisher with some kind of soft wire brush wheel will work ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Central Iowa Roof Cleaning Report post Posted April 1, 2014 Do you mean Lichen something like this. Should be fine just let dwell longer. http://youtu.be/je2KhP1DHpw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 2, 2014 Do you mean Lichen something like this. Should be fine just let dwell longer. http://youtu.be/je2KhP1DHpw The Lichen is smaller and more evenly covers the surface. I've never seen a metal roof that looks like it before. I have some Ammonyx Mo on order from my local chem guy and will try a test patch with some Mo, a higher percentage SH mix and a mix of Mo and Quat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 The Lichen is smaller and more evenly covers the surface. I've never seen a metal roof that looks like it before. I have some Ammonyx Mo on order from my local chem guy and will try a test patch with some Mo, a higher percentage SH mix and a mix of Mo and Quat. Next time, order Myrastamine instead of Ammonyx, unless Ammonyx MO is Myrastamine, and not lauramine oxide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 2, 2014 Ammonyx MO is Myristamine Oxide. Ammonyx LO is Lauramine Oxide. From Stephan.com, the manufacturers... AMMONYX MO is an amphoteric surfactant used as a cleansing agent, foam stabilizer and viscosity builder in personal care and HI&I products. Application 2 in 1 Shampoo, Adjuvants, Bar Soap, Body Wash, Facial Cleansers, Foam Boosters, Granular Baits (GB), Hand Dishwashing, Hard Surface Care, Industrial Cleaning, Laundry Commercial, Laundry Household, Liquid Hand Soap, Machine Dishwashing, Ready-To-Use (RTU), Shampoos, Soluble Concentrates (Sl), Sulfate-Free, Suspoemulsions (SE), Wettable Powders (WP) Chemical Description MYRISTYL DIMETHYLAMINE OXIDE ************ AMMONYX LO is an amphoteric surfactant finding application in personal care, HI&I applications as foam enhancers, viscosity builders and as emulsifiers and lubricants in textile applications. This product meets U.S. EPA Design for Environment (DfE) screen and is listed on www.cleangredients.org. Application 2 in 1 Shampoo, Adjuvants, All Purpose Cleaning, Bar Soap, Body Wash, Delicate/Fine Fabric Wash, Detergents, Drilling Additives, Facial Cleansers, Foam Boosters, Foaming Additive, Granular Baits (GB), Hair Conditioners, Hard Surface Care, Industrial Cleaning, Light Duty Cleaning, Liquid Hand Soap, Ready-To-Use (RTU), Shampoos, Soluble Concentrates (Sl), Sulfate-Free, Suspension Concentrates (SC), Suspoemulsions (SE), Textile and Synthetic Fibers, Textile Wet Processing, Wettable Powders (WP) Chemical Description LAURAMINE OXIDE 1 Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 Ammonyx MO is Myristamine Oxide. Ammonyx LO is Lauramine Oxide. From Stephan.com, the manufacturers... AMMONYX MO is an amphoteric surfactant used as a cleansing agent, foam stabilizer and viscosity builder in personal care and HI&I products. Application 2 in 1 Shampoo, Adjuvants, Bar Soap, Body Wash, Facial Cleansers, Foam Boosters, Granular Baits (GB), Hand Dishwashing, Hard Surface Care, Industrial Cleaning, Laundry Commercial, Laundry Household, Liquid Hand Soap, Machine Dishwashing, Ready-To-Use (RTU), Shampoos, Soluble Concentrates (Sl), Sulfate-Free, Suspoemulsions (SE), Wettable Powders (WP) Chemical Description MYRISTYL DIMETHYLAMINE OXIDE ************ AMMONYX LO is an amphoteric surfactant finding application in personal care, HI&I applications as foam enhancers, viscosity builders and as emulsifiers and lubricants in textile applications. This product meets U.S. EPA Design for Environment (DfE) screen and is listed on www.cleangredients.org. Application 2 in 1 Shampoo, Adjuvants, All Purpose Cleaning, Bar Soap, Body Wash, Delicate/Fine Fabric Wash, Detergents, Drilling Additives, Facial Cleansers, Foam Boosters, Foaming Additive, Granular Baits (GB), Hair Conditioners, Hard Surface Care, Industrial Cleaning, Light Duty Cleaning, Liquid Hand Soap, Ready-To-Use (RTU), Shampoos, Soluble Concentrates (Sl), Sulfate-Free, Suspension Concentrates (SC), Suspoemulsions (SE), Textile and Synthetic Fibers, Textile Wet Processing, Wettable Powders (WP) Chemical Description LAURAMINE OXIDE Cool, because Myristamine is the best, much better then lauramine, much thicker, sticks better! Good Job! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 3, 2014 Okay....so I went back out after finishing the roof jobs for the day and did two more test patches. Patch 1. 40% SH to water with Ammonyx MO. l gave it some dwell time. Touched it....a little, but it was still pretty hard. Had to scrub with a deck Brush and even then, looked like cr@p. Patch 2. High Concentrated Quat Fungicide with Ammonyx MO. Not much better. Practically no difference. Worried about the runoff on this one since the Quat doesn't break down as easily. Starting to get frustrated and the manager says he is skeptical...and I don't blame him. I am thinking this may need to be steam cleaned. Will keep pressure down while removing that layer of pretty much solid hardened Lichen/grime. Alternative is just to scrub the crap out of it....but labor costs are gonna suck. Need to find out if I can rent a steam cleaning machine. Might try some sodium Percarbonate for giggles to see what that does....though I doubt it will be any better. I might also try an enzyme cleaner we use for mold remediation to break down organics. This is definitely THE toughest roof job I have ever seen. On a better note...I am loving me some Myristamine Oxide! Did a STEEP pitched roof today with a 1/3 12% SH 2/3 H2O mix with 7 cups of MO to 80 Gal and this got the moss way better than normal. It even stuck to the metal roof. 5 Gal for $40 is hard to argue with. Gonna try a mix with Gain and see how it does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted April 4, 2014 Okay....so I went back out after finishing the roof jobs for the day and did two more test patches. Patch 1. 40% SH to water with Ammonyx MO. l gave it some dwell time. Touched it....a little, but it was still pretty hard. Had to scrub with a deck Brush and even then, looked like cr@p. Patch 2. High Concentrated Quat Fungicide with Ammonyx MO. Not much better. Practically no difference. Worried about the runoff on this one since the Quat doesn't break down as easily. Starting to get frustrated and the manager says he is skeptical...and I don't blame him. I am thinking this may need to be steam cleaned. Will keep pressure down while removing that layer of pretty much solid hardened Lichen/grime. Alternative is just to scrub the crap out of it....but labor costs are gonna suck. Need to find out if I can rent a steam cleaning machine. Might try some sodium Percarbonate for giggles to see what that does....though I doubt it will be any better. I might also try an enzyme cleaner we use for mold remediation to break down organics. This is definitely THE toughest roof job I have ever seen.On a better note...I am loving me some Myristamine Oxide! Did a STEEP pitched roof today with a 1/3 12% SH 2/3 H2O mix with 7 cups of MO to 80 Gal and this got the moss way better than normal. It even stuck to the metal roof. 5 Gal for $40 is hard to argue with. Gonna try a mix with Gain and see how it does. Gain will not be as good as the Myristamine, as far as cling goes, and that is an awesome price you got on it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted April 12, 2014 Yeah....this isn't moss. It is a near solid layer of tiny lichen on a corrugated metal roof. I am in Washington state....trust me, I deal with a LOT of moss...just finished a mossy, lichen filled asphalt roof before this one. No...this is a solid layer of tiny lichen that is pretty well bonded to the surface. Check this out, from our other roof cleaning forum http://roof-cleaning-institute.activeboard.com/t57287437/metal-roof-cleaning-removing-lichen/ I think sodium and/or potassium hydroxide will soften Lichens, but could be corrosive to the roof. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeakOfPerfection Report post Posted April 12, 2014 Check this out, from our other roof cleaning forum http://roof-cleaning-institute.activeboard.com/t57287437/metal-roof-cleaning-removing-lichen/ I think sodium and/or potassium hydroxide will soften Lichens, but could be corrosive to the roof. Yeah...I don't think I want to go there. I am going to go with a strong SH or SP...will try both/Ammonyx Mo mix followed by Dry Steam cleaning and then a water wash with some Sodium Metasilicate added to the final rinse for corrosion inhibition. P . If we get the job that is. This is what several metal roof guys have said is the best way to solve this particular issue. If we don't get it, I am not sure whether I will be disappointed or relieved. 1 Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast Finish Report post Posted November 29, 2014 Sodium hydroxide will strip it all off. It is what we use on metal dumpsters.... Not good on shingles, but great on metal.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyw Report post Posted November 29, 2014 this is the stuff Chris was talking about. I would not use it. AlgoClear® Pro Softwash formerly Mossgo Remove Moss Algae & Lichen Call us on 01628 687 022info @ roofclean.co.uk Follow us Home Why AlgoClear? Watch the Process Ireland The Equipment Time Frame Find a Contractor Buy AlgoClear Contact AlgoClear® Pro Softwash Safety Datasheet The AlgoClear® Pro Softwash Safety Data Sheet Product Name: AlgoClear® Pro Softwash SDS Ref: TVS002 Version No: 1 Revision Date: First Issue Date: December 17th 2008 1. IDENTIFICATION OF SUBSTANCE / PREPARATION AND OF THE COMPANY Product AlgoClear® Pro Softwash Use(s) Surface biocide and wood preservative for external surfaces Distributor Thames Valley Specialist Products PO Box 1945 Telephone: +44 1628 687 022 Maidenhead SL6 2XR Emergency Telephone: SDS Competent Person e-mail: trevor@rising-hsand.co.uk 2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION Physical & Chemical: NON HAZARDOUS CORROSIVE Health: HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. CAUSES BURNS DANGEROUS FOR THE ENVIRONMENT Environmental: VERY TOXIC TO AQUATIC ORGANISMS 3. COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS Hazardous Substances Chemical name CAS-No EINECS/ELINCS Classification Concentration DIDECYLDIMETHYLAMMONIUM CHLORIDE 7173-51-5 230-525-2 Xn: R22 C: R34 Approx.40% 4. FIRST AID MEASURES General information Remove contaminated clothing immediately, to be disposed of or washed before re-use. Inhalation Remove casualty to fresh air and provide warmth and rest. If necessary seek medica l advice. Skin contact Clean areas of skin affected a once with soap and plenty of water; if necessary seek medical advice Eye contact Wash eyes thoroughly with plenty of water until irritation subsides. Consult an eye specialist/ophthalmologist. Ingestion If product is swallowed, do NOT induce vomiting. Drink plenty of water and if necessary seek medical advice. Beware of aspiration if vomiting occurs 5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES General hazard THE PRODUCT IS NOT FLAMMABLE Extinguishing media To suit local surroundings (e.g. water spray, foam, or chemical powder) Extinguishing media not to be used None known Special exposure hazards The thermal decomposition products released (oxides of nitrogen and carbon) should be considered toxic if inhaled. Protective equipment Wear self-contained breathing apparatus. Avoid run-off water entering the drains (e.g. use barriers) 6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES Methods for cleaning up Adhere to personal protective measures. Take up with absorbent material, e.g. sand, sawdust, into tightly closed plastic containers. Environmental considerations Do not allow liquid to get into waste water or waterways; if this occurs, inform the relevant water authority at once. Further information Spillage will cause a slippery floor. 7. HANDLING & STORAGE Advice on safe handling Handle in accordance with good hygiene and safety practice.. Keep in original containers which should be tightly closed, cool and dry. Storage conditions Ensure adequate ventilation of the storage area. Storage temperature should be 10 -40ºC. Further information Keep away from incompatible substances 8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS / PERSONAL PROTECTION Exposure controls There are no workplace exposure limit values available. Comply with good practice for the control of exposure. Engineering controls Ensure adequate ventilation of working area. Personal protection Observe normal standards for handling chemicals. Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Wash thoroughly after handling (shower if necessary). Do not eat, drink or smoke in the working area. Wear personal protective equipment appropriate to the task (see below) Eye protection Safety goggles (e.g. EN 166) Skin protection Plastic or rubber gloves (also consider your own risk assessment; e.g. breakthrough times, rates of diffusion and degradation, tasks undertaken) Respiratory protection Approved respirator if ventilation is judged to be insufficient. Other protection Protective overalls or aprons 9. PHYSICAL & CHEMICAL PROPERTIES Physical form Liquid Colour Colourless to yellowish Odour Aromatic pH 6.5-8 (10 g/l @ 20ºC) Boiling pt / range approx 100 °C Freezing pt / range Not determined °C Flash point > 100 ºC Specific gravity 0.954 g/cm3 (@ 20ºC) Water solubility Miscible in all proportions Viscosity 73 mPa.s @ 23ºC (dynamic) 10. STABILITY & REACTIVITY Stability Stable under normal conditions of handling. Thermal decomposition Not determined Conditions to avoid None known Material to avoid The product is incompatible with acids and alkalies Hazardous reactions Hazardous polymerisation will not occur. Hazardous decomposition products Oxides of carbon and nitrogen following thermal decomposition. 11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION Acute toxicity (Data for didecyldimethylammonium chloride) LD50 rat (oral) 238 mg/kg LD50 rat (derm) > 2000 mg/kg Dermal compatibility Corrosive (4hours, OECD 404) (didecyldimethylammonium chloride) Mucous membrane compatibility Causes burns (didecyldimethylammonium chloride) Further information The product is not sensitising (Buehler test) and negative in Ames test (OECD 471) 12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION Acute toxicity (Data for didecyldimethylammonium chloride) LC50 Fish (rainbow trout) 1.0 mg/l 96 h (OECD 203) EC50 Daphnia magna 0.094 mg/l 48 h (EPA-FIFRA) EC50 Algae 0.026 mg/l 96 h (OECD 201) Degradability Readily degradable (72% - Sturm test) (didecyldimethylammonium chloride) Further information Since bats are a protected species under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, consult English Nature, The Scottish Natural Heritage or The Countryside Council for Wales if structure to be treated is used by bats. 13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS Advice on disposal In accordance with national and local authority regulations, e.g. The Hazardous Waste (England & Wales) Regulations 2005. Contaminated packaging Treat empty containers in the same way as the product or if possible wash out thoroughly and recycle. 14. TRANSPORT INFORMATION United Nations number UN 1760 Packaging group III IMDG code 8/1760/III RID / ADR 8/III ICAO / IATA 8/1760/III Marine pollutant The product should not be marked as a marine pollutant Proper shipping name CORROSIVE LIQUID, N.O.S. (DIDECYLDIMETHYLAMMONIUM CHLORIDE) 15. REGULATORY INFORMATION Classification & labelling The product is classified in accordance with the Chemicals (Hazard Information and Packaging for Supply) Regulations (CHIP 3.2) and the Dangerous Preparations Directive (1999/45/EC) Contains didecyldimethylammonium chloride CORROSIVE Risk phrases R22 HARMFUL IF SWALLOWEDR34 CAUSES BURNS R50 VERY TOXIC TO AQUATIC ORGANISMS. Safety phrases S25 AVOID CONTACT WITH EYES. S26 IN CASE OF CONTACT WITH EYES, RINSE IMMEDIATELY WITH PLENTY OF WATER AND SEEK MEDICAL ADVICE. S36/37/39 WEAR SUITABLE PROTECTIVE CLOTHING, GLOVES AND EYE/FACE PROTECTION. S61 AVOID RELEASE TO THE ENVIRONMENT. REFER TO SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS/SAFETY DATA SHEET. Relevant legislation Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations 2002 (as amended) to be considered. 16. OTHER INFORMATION Further information Risk phrases given in section 3 R22: Harmful if swallowed R34: Causes burns Sources of data The Approved Supply List, other suppliers' safety data sheets, EH40/2005 Date of issue 06-01-2009 This information is based on our present state of knowledge and is intended to describe our products from the point of view of the health and safety requirements. It should not be construed as guaranteeing specific properties. Why Choose AlgoClear® Pro Softwash? AlgoClear® Pro Softwash has been developed by scientists to safely, quickly and effectively remove all types of moss, algae & lichen from a wide range of different surfaces but particularly produces dramatic results on roof surfaces. moss removal algae removal lichen Removal Questions? Contact us with any questions. The Site Home Why AlgoClear? Watch the Process Ireland The Equipment Time Frame Find a Contractor Buy AlgoClear Contact Address Thames Valley Specialist Products Ltd PO Box 1945, Maidenhead, SL6 2XR Contact Phone: 01628 687 022 Email: info @ roofclean.co.uk Follow us Specifications Architects & Surveyors Specification Template Contractors Contact us for the AlgoClear® Pro Guide to Good Practice AlgoClear Safety Datasheet UK: HSE No 8832 Ireland: PCS No 96156 © 2013 AlgoClear Valid XHTML Strict 1.0 & CSS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sussex County Roof Cleaning Report post Posted November 29, 2014 So what was the end result of this metal roof? 1 Fast Finish reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sussex County Roof Cleaning Report post Posted November 29, 2014 Sodium hydroxide will strip it all off. It is what we use on metal dumpsters.... Not good on shingles, but great on metal.... Yeah but your gonna take the paint off with it. They're trying to avoid having to paint the roof. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Roof Cleaning (813) 655-8777 Report post Posted November 29, 2014 Yeah but your gonna take the paint off with it. They're trying to avoid having to paint the roof. Yep, Sodium Hydroxide is used as a paint stripper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites